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He wasn’t built that way two years ago, which, when combined with his injury and maybe some mental hurdles, has contributed to not seeing much playing time. The vast majority of college OL need 2+ years in the weight room before they play and that includes four and five star guys. Cici is an incredible outlier.
I agree sometimes it is absurd and people think they are playing NCAA but with OL I dont think as much.
Right now, Francis is our best RT and going to get drafted. A lot of scouts however think while Francis is fine at T, he could be elite at G and that is where he may play in the NFL. Same with your rivers example which is funny you brought him up because that scenario is exactly what happened to him. He was good at his position and then we moved him to G so someone else (bell) could play even though he had no experience. Rivers is a good tackle, could be an even better G.
So IF samson is close to Francis levels at T and there isnt a huge drop off, you want the best 5 on the field, francis moves to G, we all know he already cross trains there based on the way Mirabel coaches, and Francis will beat out anyone on the OL IMO.
Bell stopped playing LT once Rivers returned from injury. I'm not sure this is the hill to die on.
You don't move good players on the O-Line away from positions where they play well, unless it's a complete emergency.
No I don't think he did lol. Pretty sure Rivers played around like 60% of his snaps at LT and 40% at LG when he returned until the end of the year.
You are correct.
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Unsure if you want to die on this hill bud... once Rivers was back they were splitting series. Bell was playing roughly 50% of the game at LT with Rivers at LG. I can go back to the snap count threads if you really dont recall that but it was pretty obvious in the game what they were doing.
I also disagree with the latter. You absolutely can and should move good players from positions where they play well if there is a different position for them to play in which they will play better and it shouldnt be limited to emergency situations as you said. Once again we saw it last year with Bell. Not an emergency and Rivers was getting moved regularly.
So hypothetically, if Samson is equally as good of a RT or perhaps slightly under Francis as a RT, and Francis is head and shoulders above McCoy at G, you would prefer to keep the status quo only because Samson hasnt played much even though the overall line would be stronger?
Because he was not in game shape after almost flaming out his knee?
Rivers almost went out for the season, missed a few weeks and was inserted back into action after Bell struggled massively at LT? Coincidence? Probably not.
I find it insane that we have to go back and argue this AGAIN.
We absolutely, wholeheartedly have zero idea whether Samson is a better RT than Mauigoa, with the likelihood of that happening being very very very very very slim considering Mauigoa plays like a 1st rounder at the position. McCoy also plays very well at G, making a change completely unnecessary.
And I'm not into hypothetics. O-Line is about chemistry and communication. If you want to flip flop and substitute players based on hypothetics, I'm sorry, not a good choice.
Should I make the "when he returned" bigger, so that you can see the reason why he didn't play on a full snap count and was rotated in and out?
Maybe it was because he almost had a bad injury and wasn't in game shape, so he couldn't play full and needed to be substituted. But the fact that he played majority of the snaps at LT after missing weeks because of an injury may tell you the entire story.
What's even more funny is that no one apparently believes that a 1st round T prospect apparently can't switch to LT to make Bell and Samson battle out the RT spot. No, we gotta have a LT who proved last year he couldn't replace Rivers, then a LG who never played LG in college and a RT with zero meaningful game snaps.
And no, I'm not being snarky or have a ****ed undertone. I'm bed-ridden and this topic is being discussed for the 15000th time.
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And no matter how many times we explain the absurdity of it, they STILL clamor on and on about it. It baffles me.
I really hope these cats aren't coaching on any level because Christ almighty.
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Final Regular season game Against Cause, Rivers was 62% LT, 38% LG.
2nd to last game reg season Against Wake, Rivers was 58% LT, 42% LG.
3rd to final reg game against GTech, Rivers was 46% LT, 54% LG
4th to final reg game against Duke, Rivers was 51% LT, 49% LG
So....? Like I said 60:40 LT:LG to end the season.
Oh look, his snaps gradually increased over time, almost as if he was hurt and he couldn't move as quickly, making him a liability at the T position until he fully recovers. Thanks for proving my point, I'll consider this matter now to be dealt with.
Facts. I'm not sure where dude gets off saying he's built like a HOFer. Like what? No tf he isn't and wasn't.
I swear some of you all just type to read your own words without even trying to make a modicum of sense.
Compare your first post and my first comment to this list I just made and ask yourself which persons point is being proven correct lol
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Oh no, the influenza-ridden user wasn't correct on the fact that Rivers didn't play all snaps at LT, but correct with anything else.
If you want to take that small victory, go for it, anything else is a delusion.
That's one of the biggest things people tend to forget. Pre-NIL it was the norm for OL to not see any meaningful PT until they were Juniors. Spend two years in a college S&C program and getting the technique down and the mental side of things down and then turn it loose your JR and SR years before getting drafted. With NIL, kids are looking to get on the field sooner or they transfer. For every Cici that starts immediately, there's 200 guys that won't see the field until a couple years into their career, and that's totally ok. When Wisconsin was an OL factory throughout the 2010's they consistently would recruit guys, and they would sit behind their starters for two years, wait their turn, and then play for two years. Felt like they were always churning out an OL full of upperclassmen that just waited their turns.
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bruh you goofy... you dont want to entertain hypotheticals, then insert your own hypothetical that Rivers had some injury and his snaps were getting cut at LT as a form of rehab . If he was injured and working back they would sub him out, not move him to LG so he still played 100% of the snaps. Do you watch our OL? We pull our guards constantly and they need to move **** more than the tackles do so if he was trying to work back from "almost a bad injury" (which is a hypothetical because we dont know what the injury was) then putting him at LG to rehab him or monitor his snap count at LT (another hypothetical) still makes no sense. RIvers has also played some G at the senior bowl practices as well.
Look man for the record I agree with you that I think communication on OL is important and personally I did not like them rotating the way they did last year but to ignore it or immediately write it off as if you are in the OL room is foolish when it legit happened last year. it happened and not for the guesses your sick *** is throwing out there. They did the same with McCoy and Rodriguez (before he got hurt) as well. IDK why but they get paid millions to make those calls.
Rivers was injured, missed time and when he came back, his snaps at LT gradually increased over time. That's not a hypothetical, that's something y'all proved to me when y'all said, Rivers was being subbed because he was better a G. But hey, go back to the games before Rivers injury and tell me his snap count.
I stopped reading after "We pull our guards constantly". We run IZ all the time. We're predominantly an IZ run team. The amount of complaints that we don't pull guards or don't do anything with movement up front on this board were the biggest gripe with O-Line play. I gotta wonder if you watched, evidently you did not. And yes, it was almost a bad injury, having a DT fall on your leg on a run play is bad. Again, evidently didn't watch...
They flat out said during prep for the Florida game that McCoy is not in game shape and needs to get worked into it in practice. That's why he was not a full-time starter.
Don't reset the O-Line at three positions. If you're desperate in wanting Samson to get on the field, make Mauigoa LT and him RT. That's the last I'll say about this topic before it comes up again in two weeks.
Kid was a 5 star so I get the lack of patience but imagine the adjustments he had when all of a sudden he wasn’t playing against DL from Massachusetts that look like Ariz
Jesus man you wont let this go even when I said I agree with you.
You were wrong about snaps increasing at LT... there was only a 4 game sample, from game 1-2 they went DOWN, so tell me just off that what is your explanation, very simple question.
Then 2-3 they went up and 3-4 they went up slightly but that also coincided with Bell's injury as well in Syracuse when he tweaked something. So no, that is not indicative of him working back slowly and even if it did, you dont give a guy a breather by putting him inside where he will have more strain on his knee going up against usually stronger DT that the DE. He was still playing 100% of snaps, if he was hurt, or working back, or not in game shape, you dont have him in 80 snaps, McCoy is the one who got his snaps cut, not Rivers. Once again you are basing it off this hypothetical he was hurt, working his way back and this was the rotation to alleviate his "almost bad injury".
Next, you clearly didnt stop reading since you responded to **** later. If you need me to mash up clips of how often we pull our guards I can but once again you are wrong. And when you say "almost a bad injury" how tf do you know? because you saw a video and you can diagnose it from a video? Almost a bad injury means nothing, so it wasnt an bad injury, it was a minor injury and the cure was put him at guard?
Show me where "they" said McCoy was not in game shape. Mario would never say that or let anyone else say that. Once again, hypothetical.
I also dont care if Samson sees the field, I want the best 5 on the field and if that means moving FM to where people feel he will be elite and ultimately play I am all for it. And if any one this is inaccurate, no biggie, Im sick.
