Can we clarify one aspect of the D'Onofrio argument?

Golden and D'Onofrio are best friends. Beyond that, they're in agreement schematically. AND BEYOND THAT, they've had success together running this scheme.

If you have a problem with D'Onofrio's scheme, you have a problem with Golden's scheme. That's fine. That's a fair topic of conversation.

But the idea that Golden will fire D'Onofrio doesn't make sense to me, not because they're friends, but because he's running what Golden wants to run. Before Golden fires D'Onofrio, he'll:

1. Change his own defensive philosophy (or at least his approach to teaching this current scheme)
2. Give D'Onofrio the opportunity to make the philosophical change
3. Determine that D'Onofrio can't coach the new defense he wants to run

Until those things happen, Coach D ain't going anywhere.


Bottom line: if you have a problem with the defense, blame Golden.

its also the same system golden learned and ran under al groh at UVA and its similar to what tom obrien ran when he was at BC.

Which is pretty funny in light of the D'Onofrio v. Shannon argument. Not saying D'Onofrio is an exact substitute for Groh, but both Groh and Shannon, IMO, are great D coordinators who make bad head coaches.

On another note, I got a chance to talk to one of the graduate assistants at UVA while I was there. Golden was his D coordinator when he played at Virginia and he went on to play in the league for a few years. He only had the best things to say about Golden and his coaching ability. Golden had the same sort of deal at UVA that D'Onofrio has at Miami, ie Golden installed and ran Groh's defense just like D'Onofrio is installing and running Golden's defense.

Interesting to note that, "From 2001 to 2004, the Cavaliers' defense improved under his tutelage, ranking 108th in total defense in his first year to ranking 18th in total defense in 2004. In the same time period, Virginia's scoring defense went from 74th in the nation (27.6 ppg) to 17th (17.7 ppg) utilizing Golden's 3–4 defense."

He has done it before, but it took a little time. Our cupboards are bare, but I still think he can get us there in a few years. Ultimately I couldn't agree more with the OP, this is Golden's defense and the responsibility for its failure will start and end with him.

To fire D'onofrio they're going to have to fire Golden first. and that is not happening until the 4th year at the earliest.

umhurricano said:

Which is pretty funny in light of the D'Onofrio v. Shannon argument. Not saying D'Onofrio is an exact substitute for Groh, but both Groh and Shannon, IMO, are great D coordinators who make bad head coaches.

On another note, I got a chance to talk to one of the graduate assistants at UVA while I was there. Golden was his D coordinator when he played at Virginia and he went on to play in the league for a few years. He only had the best things to say about Golden and his coaching ability. Golden had the same sort of deal at UVA that D'Onofrio has at Miami, ie Golden installed and ran Groh's defense just like D'Onofrio is installing and running Golden's defense.

Interesting to note that, "From 2001 to 2004, the Cavaliers' defense improved under his tutelage, ranking 108th in total defense in his first year to ranking 18th in total defense in 2004. In the same time period, Virginia's scoring defense went from 74th in the nation (27.6 ppg) to 17th (17.7 ppg) utilizing Golden's 3–4 defense."

He has done it before, but it took a little time. Our cupboards are bare, but I still think he can get us there in a few years. Ultimately I couldn't agree more with the OP, this is Golden's defense and the responsibility for its failure will start and end with him.

Click to expand...

Great post. The item about the improvements in Virginia's defense under his watch was one of the first things about Golden's resume I noticed when he was hired.

umhurricano said:

Which is pretty funny in light of the D'Onofrio v. Shannon argument. Not saying D'Onofrio is an exact substitute for Groh, but both Groh and Shannon, IMO, are great D coordinators who make bad head coaches.

On another note, I got a chance to talk to one of the graduate assistants at UVA while I was there. Golden was his D coordinator when he played at Virginia and he went on to play in the league for a few years. He only had the best things to say about Golden and his coaching ability. Golden had the same sort of deal at UVA that D'Onofrio has at Miami, ie Golden installed and ran Groh's defense just like D'Onofrio is installing and running Golden's defense.

Interesting to note that, "From 2001 to 2004, the Cavaliers' defense improved under his tutelage, ranking 108th in total defense in his first year to ranking 18th in total defense in 2004. In the same time period, Virginia's scoring defense went from 74th in the nation (27.6 ppg) to 17th (17.7 ppg) utilizing Golden's 3–4 defense."

He has done it before, but it took a little time. Our cupboards are bare, but I still think he can get us there in a few years. Ultimately I couldn't agree more with the OP, this is Golden's defense and the responsibility for its failure will start and end with him.

Click to expand...

Great post, man.

This forum need to get back to the normal, a place for inteligent discussion and criticism. Not that grassy mode it was yesterday.

Rep.

CanesAreAble said:

Golden and D'Onofrio are best friends. Beyond that, they're in agreement schematically. AND BEYOND THAT, they've had success together running this scheme.

If you have a problem with D'Onofrio's scheme, you have a problem with Golden's scheme. That's fine. That's a fair topic of conversation.

But the idea that Golden will fire D'Onofrio doesn't make sense to me, not because they're friends, but because he's running what Golden wants to run. Before Golden fires D'Onofrio, he'll:

1. Change his own defensive philosophy (or at least his approach to teaching this current scheme)
2. Give D'Onofrio the opportunity to make the philosophical change
3. Determine that D'Onofrio can't coach the new defense he wants to run

Until those things happen, Coach D ain't going anywhere.


Bottom line: if you have a problem with the defense, blame Golden.

Click to expand...

Pretty accurate. Good post.

I will argue with other people's posts that Shannon is a great DC. He was running the defense under some of the best defensive talent college football has ever seen. If he was a great DC, he wouldn't be the LB coach at TCU.

CanesAreAble said:

Golden and D'Onofrio are best friends. Beyond that, they're in agreement schematically. AND BEYOND THAT, they've had success together running this scheme.

If you have a problem with D'Onofrio's scheme, you have a problem with Golden's scheme. That's fine. That's a fair topic of conversation.

But the idea that Golden will fire D'Onofrio doesn't make sense to me, not because they're friends, but because he's running what Golden wants to run. Before Golden fires D'Onofrio, he'll:

1. Change his own defensive philosophy (or at least his approach to teaching this current scheme)
2. Give D'Onofrio the opportunity to make the philosophical change
3. Determine that D'Onofrio can't coach the new defense he wants to run

Until those things happen, Coach D ain't going anywhere.


Bottom line: if you have a problem with the defense, blame Golden.

Click to expand...

I have a problem with the talent level Shannon left Golden on defense. There is one guy out there starting who would get starting run on a normal UM defense. Perryman. We just don't have the horses. Until we do, I will tend to be very forgiving.

It's on everyone right now, including Golden. He's acknowledged problems with the defensive scheme and what they are currently doing already, which is a breath of fresh air compared to Shannon. At least he recognizes the problems . . . now can he fix them? I really hope so. It's clear that something is wrong. Freshman and Sophomores do not equal having one of the worst defenses in the FBS.

No chance in **** Golden fires him. Not until they clean out the roster and get their own players in the spots they want them.

Agree or disagree with the philosophy but that's most likely the reality of it, and it was probably an understanding when Golden took the job.

umhurricano said:

Which is pretty funny in light of the D'Onofrio v. Shannon argument. Not saying D'Onofrio is an exact substitute for Groh, but both Groh and Shannon, IMO, are great D coordinators who make bad head coaches.

On another note, I got a chance to talk to one of the graduate assistants at UVA while I was there. Golden was his D coordinator when he played at Virginia and he went on to play in the league for a few years. He only had the best things to say about Golden and his coaching ability. Golden had the same sort of deal at UVA that D'Onofrio has at Miami, ie Golden installed and ran Groh's defense just like D'Onofrio is installing and running Golden's defense.

Interesting to note that, "From 2001 to 2004, the Cavaliers' defense improved under his tutelage, ranking 108th in total defense in his first year to ranking 18th in total defense in 2004. In the same time period, Virginia's scoring defense went from 74th in the nation (27.6 ppg) to 17th (17.7 ppg) utilizing Golden's 3–4 defense."

He has done it before, but it took a little time. Our cupboards are bare, but I still think he can get us there in a few years. Ultimately I couldn't agree more with the OP, this is Golden's defense and the responsibility for its failure will start and end with him.

Click to expand...

Shannon is not a GREAT Defensive mind or D coordinator.
...come on.
If I had the talent he had, I would have had a top 20 D at the very worst.

The cupboards were left bare.

bomb said:

CanesAreAble said:

Golden and D'Onofrio are best friends. Beyond that, they're in agreement schematically. AND BEYOND THAT, they've had success together running this scheme.

If you have a problem with D'Onofrio's scheme, you have a problem with Golden's scheme. That's fine. That's a fair topic of conversation.

But the idea that Golden will fire D'Onofrio doesn't make sense to me, not because they're friends, but because he's running what Golden wants to run. Before Golden fires D'Onofrio, he'll:

1. Change his own defensive philosophy (or at least his approach to teaching this current scheme)
2. Give D'Onofrio the opportunity to make the philosophical change
3. Determine that D'Onofrio can't coach the new defense he wants to run

Until those things happen, Coach D ain't going anywhere.


Bottom line: if you have a problem with the defense, blame Golden.

Click to expand...

I have a problem with the talent level Shannon left Golden on defense. There is one guy out there starting who would get starting run on a normal UM defense. Perryman. We just don't have the horses. Until we do, I will tend to be very forgiving.

Click to expand...

That's my biggest problem with RS as well, the cupboards were nearly bare.

umhurricano said:

Which is pretty funny in light of the D'Onofrio v. Shannon argument. Not saying D'Onofrio is an exact substitute for Groh, but both Groh and Shannon, IMO, are great D coordinators who make bad head coaches.

On another note, I got a chance to talk to one of the graduate assistants at UVA while I was there. Golden was his D coordinator when he played at Virginia and he went on to play in the league for a few years. He only had the best things to say about Golden and his coaching ability. Golden had the same sort of deal at UVA that D'Onofrio has at Miami, ie Golden installed and ran Groh's defense just like D'Onofrio is installing and running Golden's defense.

Interesting to note that, "From 2001 to 2004, the Cavaliers' defense improved under his tutelage, ranking 108th in total defense in his first year to ranking 18th in total defense in 2004. In the same time period, Virginia's scoring defense went from 74th in the nation (27.6 ppg) to 17th (17.7 ppg) utilizing Golden's 3–4 defense."

He has done it before, but it took a little time. Our cupboards are bare, but I still think he can get us there in a few years. Ultimately I couldn't agree more with the OP, this is Golden's defense and the responsibility for its failure will start and end with him.

Click to expand...

This is a great post, but I do have to follow it up with a couple questions. These are serious questions, not stabs at Golden, D'Onofrio, etc:

1. Even if the system and play calling is good, is D'Onofrio (and the rest of the Defensive staff) doing a good job communicating/teaching it to the players.
2. Even if the system is good, is the implementation of it good.

I think the first question is pretty self explanatory and I dont know the answer to it one way or the other.

As for the second question, I am thinking of a situation such as the one when Randy was the HC and Walton was running the defense. Say what you will about Randy's defense and the players we had, but there was no question (at least I didnt think there was) that even though Walton was running Shannon's defense, it wasn't as good as when Randy ran it. So, could it be that Golden has a good defense, but D'Onofrio just isn't executing it properly?

Again, I am not knocking D'Onofrio as I don't feel that I have enough football knowledge to say this is Golden's fault, D'Onofrio's fault, the players' fault or more likely some combination of all, those are just some thoughts the crossed my mind after seeing umhurricano's post and I would love to get the opinions of those with more football knowledge than myself.

CanesAreAble said:

Golden and D'Onofrio are best friends. Beyond that, they're in agreement schematically. AND BEYOND THAT, they've had success together running this scheme.

If you have a problem with D'Onofrio's scheme, you have a problem with Golden's scheme. That's fine. That's a fair topic of conversation.

But the idea that Golden will fire D'Onofrio doesn't make sense to me, not because they're friends, but because he's running what Golden wants to run. Before Golden fires D'Onofrio, he'll:

1. Change his own defensive philosophy (or at least his approach to teaching this current scheme)
2. Give D'Onofrio the opportunity to make the philosophical change
3. Determine that D'Onofrio can't coach the new defense he wants to run

Until those things happen, Coach D ain't going anywhere.


Bottom line: if you have a problem with the defense, blame Golden.

Click to expand...

I don't give a good god**** about their philosophy, or track record, or anything else. Right now the defense is historically bad. I mean ****, I know the guys aren't experienced, but they shouldn't be this awful. Its spectacular just how bad the defense is.