What's Easier/Better for the DL?

[RiDLer80]

Admittedly, I'm not a coach and I'm not trained in studying film so I may be seeing some things wrong; but last night I was watching the FlashForward of the UF game and it got me to thinking.

UF looked to be running a 3-4 with some 4-3 mixed in, but it was the aggressive type with the DL firing off the ball as opposed to ours where the DL tries to control the OL and is responsible for two gaps.

My question is what's the easier transition for a DL to make? Is it easier to play the run on the way to the qb (think 2001 Miami) or rushing the passer after initially playing the run first (think recent Bama defenses)?

Also, which system is easier to install and maintain?

I wanted to point to the two best defenses to play that style and take talent out of the equation. I don't want to argue about our current defense. Let's pretend your personnel is in place and you don't have to play scrubs like we've been doing the last couple years.

 

[NorthFlaCane]

How many of our dlineman do you think are trying to control 2-gaps on any one play?

I say this because we attempt to mix 1 and 2 gaps on any given play, like many defenses do. Some of the guys who appear to be holding 2 gaps are just not very good.

 

[RiDLer80]

How many of our dlineman do you think are trying to control 2-gaps on any one play?

I say this because we attempt to mix 1 and 2 gaps on any given play, like many defenses do. Some of the guys who appear to be holding 2 gaps are just not very good.

2 our of the 3. I believe the strong side DE and NT two gap while the weak side DE 1-gaps.

 

[gfer1988]

i'm not sure one's easier than the other. it really depends on whether or not your have the right personnel for a 3-4 or 4-3 defense. we clearly did not have the right guys to run a 3-4 the past few years.

 

[terra99pin]

i'm not sure one's easier than the other. it really depends on whether or not your have the right personnel for a 3-4 or 4-3 defense. we clearly did not have the right guys to run a 3-4 the past few years.

I don't think we had the right guys for either system. When we have switched to 4 down linemen in passing situations we have not been able to get pressure. Great defensive linemen can play well in both, even if they are better suited to one or the other. Wilfork was a stud in our system and has been a monster 2-gapping NT in the pros. If we had had Dominique Easley this past year, we would have performed better with either.

To answer the OP, I don't think there is any question that a 4-3 is easier to implement. The 3-4 is complex, and only time will tell if Golden proves to be able to teach it as well as say, Nick Saban.

 

[BlackKeysFan]

I think we have decent ends for the 3-4. Chick, Kamalu, Hamilton, CT99, AQM all make some sense in a 3-4 at End. Tackle has been the problem and we still haven't landed surething, bonafide studs to remedy the problem. I actually don't think we've had the LB's for 3-4 either, nobody ever talks about that though. 4-3 makes sense, and we can get some useful snaps out of Chick, Kamalu, and Hamilton at Tackle to cover up for the fact that we have nothing at Tackle. We have guys like McCord, AQM, CT99, Jackson, and Harris that all have multiple years ahead of them and can be absolute terrors off the edge that we've been lacking. Just put their ******* hand in the dirt, not in coverage, and let them beat single blocking and put some pressure on the QB. I guarantee thats the difference.

 

[DuffleBagYoda]

It depends on your stable. Kenyans aren't sprinters and Jamaicans ain't winning marathons. We didn't have the horses for a two gap. Period.

U can run a one gap 34 and a 2 gap 43. But it always comes back to personnel.

If i have a lot of athletes playing backer and a few HORSES in the trenches then 34. But gap discipline depends on the line skill set.

A lot of stud lineman and a not so many backers then 43. Depending on my line skill set then that determines gap discipline.

Numbers are numbers a front seven is seven no matter how u slice it. What makes them good IMO is, attitude , discipline, toughness, technique. Period. I know the game i love the game. I'm no guru, but i get it.

I don't think our practices are physical enough personally that's why kids look rusty and soft on game day. We need to hit every practice except Thursday. U miss tackles in practice, I'd run u till I puke. Yes me and i ain't the one running. Straight up. After a while kids treat it like assassins. Games become nothing after 3 wars in practice all week. And injuries happen but at least i know those who play are battle tested battle ready.

Stars systems don't mean squat. Champions are made.

6 P rule. Proper Preparing Prevents **** Poor Performance

 

[gfer1988]

I believe CTii and AQM are to small framed to be effective as an end in a 3-4 scheme. they would better serve as jack linebackers or standing ends. and old analysis of chick actually stated that he would have the highest ceiling getting into better shape and playing as a jack linebacker in a 3-4 system. i think the added weight killed his career. he was much more effective at a lower weight and in a 4-3 scheme as an end. a 3-4 end is basically a nose guard in a 4-3 scheme. needs to be near 300 lbs and able to take on multiple defenders. also needs a strong wide frame. but with the amount of pass rushers we have now we should be able to get more pressure on the qb regardless of scheme. the only thing i'm non confident in is the pressure from up the middle which made the valentine loss so damaging as he fit that need.

I think we have decent ends for the 3-4. Chick, Kamalu, Hamilton, CT99, AQM all make some sense in a 3-4 at End. Tackle has been the problem and we still haven't landed surething, bonafide studs to remedy the problem. I actually don't think we've had the LB's for 3-4 either, nobody ever talks about that though. 4-3 makes sense, and we can get some useful snaps out of Chick, Kamalu, and Hamilton at Tackle to cover up for the fact that we have nothing at Tackle. We have guys like McCord, AQM, CT99, Jackson, and Harris that all have multiple years ahead of them and can be absolute terrors off the edge that we've been lacking. Just put their ****ing hand in the dirt, not in coverage, and let them beat single blocking and put some pressure on the QB. I guarantee thats the difference.

 

[gfer1988]

i don't believe is was so much that we didn't have the right guys for the 4-3 scheme. i think it was we didn't have the coaches. I think donofrio is clueless when it comes to coaching and organizing a front seven in a 4-3 to be effective. i'm a tampa 2 purists who believes that is the most effective way to run a 4-3. our "4-3" was basically a 3-4 with our jack linebacker's hand in the dirt.

i'm not sure one's easier than the other. it really depends on whether or not your have the right personnel for a 3-4 or 4-3 defense. we clearly did not have the right guys to run a 3-4 the past few years.

I don't think we had the right guys for either system. When we have switched to 4 down linemen in passing situations we have not been able to get pressure. Great defensive linemen can play well in both, even if they are better suited to one or the other. Wilfork was a stud in our system and has been a monster 2-gapping NT in the pros. If we had had Dominique Easley this past year, we would have performed better with either.

To answer the OP, I don't think there is any question that a 4-3 is easier to implement. The 3-4 is complex, and only time will tell if Golden proves to be able to teach it as well as say, Nick Saban.

 

[terra99pin]

I believe CTii and AQM are to small framed to be effective as an end in a 3-4 scheme. they would better serve as jack linebackers or standing ends. and old analysis of chick actually stated that he would have the highest ceiling getting into better shape and playing as a jack linebacker in a 3-4 system. i think the added weight killed his career. he was much more effective at a lower weight and in a 4-3 scheme as an end. a 3-4 end is basically a nose guard in a 4-3 scheme. needs to be near 300 lbs and able to take on multiple defenders. also needs a strong wide frame. but with the amount of pass rushers we have now we should be able to get more pressure on the qb regardless of scheme. the only thing i'm non confident in is the pressure from up the middle which made the valentine loss so damaging as he fit that need.

I think we have decent ends for the 3-4. Chick, Kamalu, Hamilton, CT99, AQM all make some sense in a 3-4 at End. Tackle has been the problem and we still haven't landed surething, bonafide studs to remedy the problem. I actually don't think we've had the LB's for 3-4 either, nobody ever talks about that though. 4-3 makes sense, and we can get some useful snaps out of Chick, Kamalu, and Hamilton at Tackle to cover up for the fact that we have nothing at Tackle. We have guys like McCord, AQM, CT99, Jackson, and Harris that all have multiple years ahead of them and can be absolute terrors off the edge that we've been lacking. Just put their ****ing hand in the dirt, not in coverage, and let them beat single blocking and put some pressure on the QB. I guarantee thats the difference.

Not saying I agree or disagree with it, but I think the staff believes CT has the frame to be huge. In Golden's signing day presser he made it sound like CT is going to be a strongside DE, and Demetrius and Trent Harris will be swing guys who play both weakside DE and SAM, the way Mccord and AQM do.

Listen to the following from 1:45 to 4:20

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_h1uhvIlaxI

Basically I think they want CT to be what Chick should have been-- the do everything player that can stop the run and get to the passer.

 

[DuffleBagYoda]

Chad needs to be a Lamar Woodley

 

[Travis Bickle]

Why does everyone assume that all our DL are playing two gaps? And why does everyone assume a 4-3 alignment automatically means single gap? In essence, from what I can see, our 3-4 is more in tune with a 4-3. Not all our guys play 2-gap responsibilities. Replace Green with McCord and upgrade an athletically challenged Chickillo, and we have immediate improvement. Our real concern should lie with our passive LB play.

Also, McCord and AQM, to me, have the potential to be beasts as our hybrid OLB/DE.

 

[RiDLer80]

Why does everyone assume that all our DL are playing two gaps? And why does everyone assume a 4-3 alignment automatically means single gap? In essence, from what I can see, our 3-4 is more in tune with a 4-3. Not all our guys play 2-gap responsibilities. Replace Green with McCord and upgrade an athletically challenged Chickillo, and we have immediate improvement. Our real concern should lie with our passive LB play.

Also, McCord and AQM, to me, have the potential to be beasts as our hybrid OLB/DE.

Did you read the thread?

I said that 2 of our 3 DL 2-gap. The SDE and NT usually 2 gap.

Also, this isn't about a 3-4 vs 4-3. This is about the style of play along the DL. I know you can 2-gap and 1-gap in both fronts.

What I want to know is philosophically, what's the easier style of play for a DL. Stopping the run on the way to the QB (2000s Miami) or rushing the passer after playing the run first (recent Bama teams)?

 

[Travis Bickle]

Wasn't talking about you specifically. It just feels like that's the prevailing sentiment.

 

[Miami82]

Why does everyone assume that all our DL are playing two gaps? And why does everyone assume a 4-3 alignment automatically means single gap? In essence, from what I can see, our 3-4 is more in tune with a 4-3. Not all our guys play 2-gap responsibilities. Replace Green with McCord and upgrade an athletically challenged Chickillo, and we have immediate improvement. Our real concern should lie with our passive LB play.

Also, McCord and AQM, to me, have the potential to be beasts as our hybrid OLB/DE.

Did you read the thread?

I said that 2 of our 3 DL 2-gap. The SDE and NT usually 2 gap.

Also, this isn't about a 3-4 vs 4-3. This is about the style of play along the DL. I know you can 2-gap and 1-gap in both fronts.

What I want to know is philosophically, what's the easier style of play for a DL. Stopping the run on the way to the QB (2000s Miami) or rushing the passer after playing the run first (recent Bama teams)?

IMO less thinking of assignments and attacking is the simplest. If you watch the 01/02 Canes it was meet at the ball carrier. Plain and simple.