Coaching What We’re Looking for in a Strength & Conditioning Coach

[Empirical Cane]

Lol, yeah plenty.

Anything to do with Cricket, NASCAR, Men’s Tennis or Lacrosse I don’t know anything about.

One day you and I will sit down for a turkey sandwhich...

 

[Bird4um]

Moffit should be available.

 

[AlphaMarshan]

Serious question: Would it help OL and DL athletes to have a Magnus ver Magnusson (yes that man) train them?

Not applicable??

I'll answer that by respectfully asking you a question in return:

What would you say Magnus ver Magnusson (or Pudzianowski, Brian Shaw, etc.) knows about Strength & Conditioning for football that others don't? In other words, what exactly would make a World's Strongest Man from the 90's - while unbelievably impressive - a better and more knowledgeable Strength Coach than someone else?

Strongmen do not train in the same way that football players do; nor should they. Their events are completely unrelated, so their training goals are completely different, and their injury profiles are as well. Things like pulling an 18-wheeler x number of feet, deadlifting a car to exhaustion, or throwing kegs over a wall is crazy and impressive, but not applicable nor an effective strategy for training football players. Specificity trumps everything, there isn't some "secret" that they know for training that other coaches aren't utilizing.

He's a monstrously strong guy from Iceland that would never have made an NFL team.

 

[Empirical Cane]

I'll answer that by respectfully asking you a question in return:

What would you say Magnus ver Magnusson (or Pudzianowski, Brian Shaw, etc.) knows about Strength & Conditioning for football that others don't? In other words, what exactly would make a World's Strongest Man from the 90's - while unbelievably impressive - a better and more knowledgeable Strength Coach than someone else?

Strongmen do not train in the same way that football players do; nor should they. Their events are completely unrelated, so their training goals are completely different, and their injury profiles are as well. Things like pulling an 18-wheeler x number of feet, deadlifting a car to exhaustion, or throwing kegs over a wall is crazy and impressive, but not applicable nor an effective strategy for training football players. Specificity trumps everything, there isn't some "secret" that they know for training that other coaches aren't utilizing.

He's a monstrously strong guy from Iceland that would never have made an NFL team.

As a layman, I'd assume those training regimens have at least some overlap with OL and DL. I would think the demands of both worlds require very similar movements, stability, explosion, etc.

As to what I suspect are your informed thoughts, that is exactly why I asked.

 

[Dilber]

Serious question: Would it help OL and DL athletes to have a Magnus ver Magnusson (yes that man) train them?

Not applicable??

Only if we wanted them to compete in strongmen competitions. Sport specificity is a thing and wouldn't line up well with what we're doing outside of GPP work (but to do so would ignore most of the research into injury prevention because there's way more stuff you can do that'll get you strong without risking injury). Strongmen is very technique driven, and generally athletes should be doing work that is less technical.

For example: a trap bar deadlift is better for football players than a regular deadlift for a couple of reasons.

1. Less technique driven allows them to focus more on moving weight than technical setups.
2. Way less injury risk (due to positioning and lesser need to focus on technique)
3. You can move more weight with a trap bar due to the force curve coming off the floor.

The goal is to be a better football player, not place in a strongman comp.

The other thing is that generally competitors have other people program for them. It doesn't matter how good you are personally at programming, it is almost always beneficial to have someone else do your programming because it'll force you to be honest and actually deal with weaknesses and movements you hate.

Feeley was pretty up to date on sports science, but I'd agree it's incredibly unlikely he's retained. He's going to get blamed for the injuries we had on the field, thought I wouldn't say it was his fault. We've had so few non-contact injuries which is the better gauge for injury prevention in S&C imo.

 

[Empirical Cane]

Only if we wanted them to compete in strongmen competitions. Sport specificity is a thing and wouldn't line up well with what we're doing outside of GPP work (but to do so would ignore most of the research into injury prevention because there's way more stuff you can do that'll get you strong without risking injury). Strongmen is very technique driven, and generally athletes should be doing work that is less technical.

For example: a trap bar deadlift is better for football players than a regular deadlift for a couple of reasons.

1. Less technique driven allows them to focus more on moving weight than technical setups.
2. Way less injury risk (due to positioning and lesser need to focus on technique)
3. You can move more weight with a trap bar due to the force curve coming off the floor.

The goal is to be a better football player, not place in a strongman comp.

The other thing is that generally competitors have other people program for them. It doesn't matter how good you are personally at programming, it is almost always beneficial to have someone else do your programming because it'll force you to be honest and actually deal with weaknesses and movements you hate.

Feeley was pretty up to date on sports science, but I'd agree it's incredibly unlikely he's retained. He's going to get blamed for the injuries we had on the field, thought I wouldn't say it was his fault. We've had so few non-contact injuries which is the better gauge for injury prevention in S&C imo.

GPP???

Certainly not suggesting they (OL/DL) place in strongmen comps, but it just appears there are similarities for strength, technique, and injury prevention that perhaps could be useful.

I enjoy learning about the behind the scenes details and appreciate the dialogue.

 

[Dilber]

As a layman, I'd assume those training regimens have at least some overlap with OL and DL. I would think the demands of both worlds require very similar movements, stability, explosion, etc.

As to what I suspect are your informed thoughts, that is exactly why I asked.

Not as much as you'd think. Strongmen training is a lot about creating strength and stability in uncommon positions (compared to the average lifter), but the planes of movement they tend to work in competition are completely different than football and would probably increase injury risk.

EDIT: GPP is General Physical Preparation, which is the base level of strength and movement you build to before specificity in a lot of programs

 

[AlphaMarshan]

As a layman, I'd assume those training regimens have at least some overlap with OL and DL. I would think the demands of both worlds require very similar movements, stability, explosion, etc.

As to what I suspect are your informed thoughts, that is exactly why I asked.

Yeah and let me be clear, him being a WSM does not preclude him from being an expert S&C practitioner, which was kind of my point from the original post.

If it turns out Magnus like, interned with the Giants and got a degree in biomechanics and spent a lot of time working with NFL players, that'd be completely different. He might even have a unique perspective or bring in some of his own stuff from when he was training - specifically as it pertains to making football players better football players - that would be totally awesome.

I have written S&C programs for Rugby and Soccer even though I never played either.

 

[Empirical Cane]

Yeah and let me be clear, him being a WSM does not preclude him from being an expert S&C practitioner, which was kind of my point from the original post.

If it turns out Magnus like, interned with the Giants and got a degree in biomechanics and spent a lot of time working with NFL players, that'd be completely different. He might even have a unique perspective or bring in some of his own stuff from when he was training - specifically as it pertains to making football players better football players - that would be totally awesome.

I have written S&C programs for Rugby and Soccer even though I never played either.

I think this was partially the point I was ham-handedly making.

 

[Empirical Cane]

Yeah and let me be clear, him being a WSM does not preclude him from being an expert S&C practitioner, which was kind of my point from the original post.

If it turns out Magnus like, interned with the Giants and got a degree in biomechanics and spent a lot of time working with NFL players, that'd be completely different. He might even have a unique perspective or bring in some of his own stuff from when he was training - specifically as it pertains to making football players better football players - that would be totally awesome.

I have written S&C programs for Rugby and Soccer even though I never played either.

Another question for you and @Dilber ...

Do you feel the current/recent history of Miami athletes could have truly been S&C developed "better" if they had gone to a Bama, etc?

I view it more like engines: yes you can get a bit out of a 4cyl, but at the end of the day, 8cyl offer far more potential to improve with the right bolt ons.

 

[ssvir]

We need Victor Conte. End thread.

 

[Dilber]

Another question for you and @Dilber ...

Do you feel the current/recent history of Miami athletes could have truly been S&C developed "better" if they had gone to a Bama, etc?

I view it more like engines: yes you can get a bit out of a 4cyl, but at the end of the day, 8cyl offer far more potential to improve with the right bolt ons.

In all honesty, yes. It has nothing to do with the head S&C coach and everything to do with resources. Alabama spends a lot more on S&C. Having more coaches around while you are lifting will tend to lead to better results. I also personally think that Manny meddled more in the S&C program than necessary. Feeley having everyone doing massive amounts of 110s goes against literally everything else I've seen from him on following the science, and it feels like one of those dumb "mental toughness" things that HCs love.

I will say it depends on the definition of "better" though. We've had very few non-contact injuries, and generally our conditioning seems fine. We just suck on the field, which is more on-field coaching than S&C. It doesn't matter how great of an athlete you are if you aren't using your leverages correctly.

 

[hollyhood27]

I am biased but Brian Johnson from Cal would come here.

 

[emrok]

As important as strength and conditioning is, I'm not convinced the coach matters all that much. They are important in the sense that they are always around the players and have a massive influence, but as far as the workouts themselves, meh. I say that because college S&C programs aren't drastically different, and moreover differences in training produce similar results. The individual differences in the athletes matter more than whatever it is they are doing.

In my opinion, the challenge is in nutrition. Guys eat like ****, don't use supplements, and their bodies reflect it, but again, this isn't a problem unique to Miami, and I would be surprised if it isn't an issue everywhere, but the service academies.

 

[M3N]

Feely is a very good SC coach. Best we’ve had since Moffit. A big thing to look at is if teams are having lots a soft tissue injuries. This year we got the injury bug a bit but I don’t think it correlates to a bad SC program.

The program we had under Gus was absolute trash and very outdated. But then again you’ll come to find out his program came from PSU.

Anyway I’ve been preaching this for years. Guys have to have the right schooling and Certs. Also a background in human physiology/ kinesiology is a must.

Olympic lifting with a focus on functional football strength is key. Typically you won’t see the fruits till year 3/4.

Y’all should look into the Hatch system. It’s what Moffit runs as well as his protégés. Scott Cochran formally at Alabama/ UGA. FSUs SC under Jimbo. It’s proven. Need to get someone off the Moffit tree. Also the juice and GH helps a ton.

 

[htownkidd]

Wilson Love is a clown. Ya’ll don’t want that dude here, lol.

 

[Bender]

I also personally think that Manny meddled more in the S&C program than necessary. Feeley having everyone doing massive amounts of 110s goes against literally everything else I've seen from him on following the science, and it feels like one of

What do you mean, the HC who stuck his nose in everything, did this? You must be out of your mind.

Yes, this is sarcasm.

 

[TemplarCane]

So, a big no to Greg Glassmen and Louis Simmons? Pavel Tstatsouline?

Derek from MorePlatesMoreDates would be an excellent pharmacology advisor.

#sarcasm…

 

[Redstate12]

Several other users on this forum, including myself, are current or former Strength and Conditioning (S&C, or just Strength) Coaches. As we go through the coaching carousel, I wanted to shed some light on what we should be looking for in a Strength Coach, as I assume Feeley will likely be replaced.

It’s important to understand that the Strength Coach has an especially unique role on the coaching staff. Offensive and Defensive Coordinators might have a “system” they run, recruit the right players for that system, and execute their system with various X’s and O’s based on what looks the other team is giving them. As such, they can have a robust history of numbers and averages that other coaches and commentators as well as fans can use to show their effectiveness, i.e.: *** rushing yards per game, passing yards, touchdowns, points allowed, etc.

S&C doesn’t really work this way. The Strength Coach will spend arguably more time with the athletes than any other coach on the team but won’t really have any hard or concrete numbers to show his effectiveness unless you are an insider, like seeing the progression of fat loss or muscle mass gained from player to player. The closest that a fan can get to really seeing the effectiveness of the coach is how “gassed” the players look throughout the game and especially in the 4th quarter. But the Strength Coach is critical to developing the athletes in a way conducive to the coaching staff’s goals.

Credentials

Back in the day, becoming an S&C Coach at the collegiate or professional level typically came from an apprenticeship. Ron McKeeferey (Tennessee) wrote in his book about how he got started by writing letters to dozens if not hundreds of S&C coaches at the collegiate and professional level until someone finally took a chance on him. That supposed knowledge containing all the “secrets” of the best coaches was passed down in this manner.

Another manner in which many coaches “made it” was simply because they themselves also were athletes, and after their career was over they met with their former coach and asked to be brought on as a Strength Coach, regardless of their knowledge; having “been there, done that” was good enough.

The emergence of exercise science/physiology as a major in the 90’s and after has made this method of learning obsolete. Research and development from Universities and allied health organizations such as the National Strength & Conditioning Association (NSCA) has shed light on effective training strategies for athletes and thrown to the wayside old/stupid/outdated ideas like making the football players bodybuilders. You should be proud to know that your University of Miami is considered a leader in this field.

In 2014, the NCAA required that S&C Coaches be certified by an accredited certification. As such, several certifications have arisen to show a baseline aptitude of exercise science for the coach who successfully passes the test. Passing the test simply shows a minimum degree of knowledge that the practitioner understands anatomy and physiology, biomechanics, nutrition, programming and periodization, technique instruction, stretching, injury prevention, rehabilitation, and more.

Any worthwhile S&C Coach will have one or more of the following certifications:

NSCA – CSCS (Certified Strength & Conditioning Specialist)

CSCCa – SCCC (Strength and Conditioning Coach Certified)

NCSF – CSC (Certified Strength Coach)

The CSCS has been widely regarded as the “gold standard” for S&C for many years, but the SCCC is quickly emerging as something coaches and administrators also would like to see. The SCCC involves a lengthy internship process where the practitioner needs to have x number of hours learning from a “Master” S&C Coach (as deemed by the CSCCa) in addition to passing the certification. It’s a little “good ol’ boy-ish” for me but nevertheless it’s worth having. The CSC is also emerging as a good option although it is less known than the other options.

As a quick aside: I know there are many users here and former players who admire Coach Swasey as a S&C Coach – while not an attack on his character as it’s a difficult test, I will simply leave it that while at UM he was unable to obtain a certifying credential as a S&C Coach. Looking at his current bio at FIU now, there is still no mention of one.

So any Strength Coach that we bring on, this is typically the first thing that I look for and want to see. If they don’t have it, they’re a dinosaur and were probably grandfathered in.

Injury Prevention

The #1 priority of a Strength Coach is injury prevention. This isn’t up for debate.

Strength Coaches are now having to work with athletes whom are pulling in literally 9-figure contracts + endorsements (Mahomes, Mike Trout, Lebron). It doesn’t matter how explosive, strong, or conditioned an athlete is: If you hurt them, they don’t play. And if they don’t play, the organization is losing games, fans, and money.

Football is a contact sport. There isn’t much a coach can do when a player gets wrapped up or tackled in an awkward position that tears a ligament – it’s unfortunate but part of the game. However, non-contact injury is a huge deal and something the Strength Coach is directly responsible for. A Strength Coach who doesn’t correctly train athletes in multiple planes of motion, program considerably for calf/hamstring development, knee stability, etc. will have athletes whom have injuries from planting (quickly decelerating à accelerating) and needs to be corrected.

I’m looking to see if the coach’s teams have a history of non-contact ACL tears or other preventative injuries.

Athletes and Confirmation Bias

The largest determining factor for what makes a Strength Coach effective is the caliber of athletes they start with.

I’m going to say that again.

The largest determining factor for what makes a Strength Coach effective is the caliber of athletes they start with.

Working as a S&C Coach at Ohio State or Alabama is the easiest job on planet earth: You’re working with 4 and 5-star athletes whom were specifically recruited for their exact role, meaning they already have the aptitude to succeed. The Strength Coach’s job is to reduce their risk of injury, improve all the factors needed to allow the athlete to be successful (technique, conditioning, trunk stability, mobility/flexibility, etc. etc.), and monitor any signs of overtraining or fatigue, etc.

It is without exaggeration that I tell you that Swasey in the early 2000’s had the easiest job in the sports world, maybe 2nd to Scott Cochran while he was at Alabama. How hard do you think it is to train Sean Taylor or Julio Jones? They’re already freak athletes. All you have to do is make sure you don’t do something stupid and hurt them in the weight room, and even that is apparently too difficult for some people.

Recruiting athletes who are not explosive, not strong, not fast, not quick, not coordinated, and/or not smart, limits what the Strength Coach can do with them. You’ve either got type II muscle fibers or you don’t. I might be able to take an athlete who runs a 4.8 40 (whether you think that’s important or not) and bring it down to a 4.6-4.7, but there are simply limits to this. Additionally, the goal is to be a better football player, not run a faster 40.

As a positive example, it’s easy to see that someone like Jaylon Knighton is very, very fast. His Strength Coach in high school wasn’t responsible for that, and neither is his collegiate Strength Coach. What’s important is reducing his risk of injury, putting on some muscle mass to allow him to take a little more abuse and improve his longevity, while maintaining his explosiveness and speed.

Therefore, “the caliber of athletes” a Strength Coach has worked with in the past does not necessarily make them good or bad Strength Coaches. Just because someone comes from a small or irrelevant school doesn’t mean they aren’t good, and just because someone came from an SEC school doesn’t mean they are good.

What we don’t want

Navy SEALs or “World’s Strongest Men” or “Water is for the weak!”-type guys. This is going to come as a news flash to some of you, but believe it or not, someone who went through BUD/S has a lot of mental toughness but doesn’t mean they necessarily know jack **** about training football players. 13-mile rucksack marches and making guys lift giant logs in unison makes for a good movie scene, maybe, but is stupid and increases the risk of injury when training football players.

Just because someone bench presses a lot, loves to snort cocaine, screams at people, smashes Monsters on their forehead, was once a Green Beret, or has a handlebar mustache doesn’t – necessarily - mean they’re a good Strength Coach.

We don’t want a Strength Coach who is overly concerned with metrics. Impressive metrics like how much someone Benches or Power Cleans should be dependent variables from the caliber of the athlete as well as a byproduct of the training methodology. That is to say: Someone who goes through a proper S&C program will see their squat 1RM improve, but that wasn’t necessarily the goal of the program. The goal of the program is to make better athletes; the metrics associated should improve because of the effectiveness of the program.

Another good example of a Strength Coach we don’t want is Coach Oderinde, who followed Willie Taggart to Oregon and FSU. While at Oregon, he nearly killed a couple of players by giving them all rhabdomyolysis. Rhabdomyolysis or “rhabdo” is a condition where the muscle fibers are broken down beyond normal/healthy to such an extent that myoglobin leaks out from the muscle into the blood stream. From there, it’s too large of a protein to be filtered by the kidneys so someone who is experiencing rhabdo will have brown urine and can potentially succumb to renal failure, which is fatal. The guy is literally the Director of Strength and Conditioning at USF and he has no ******* idea what he’s doing lol. You’ll notice he also has no mention of being a CSCS or SCCC on his bio, which in my opinion is no coincidence as those certifications typically teach you how to not kill people.

Another example of a coach we don’t necessarily want is someone who’s known for being “innovative.” I hear this one a lot. “Oh, he’s so innovative, he’s doing all kinds of crazy stuff with his athletes!” We don’t want crazy stuff. We want an evidence-based plan of action that concurs with established science. Just because a guy is doing “crazy” or “innovative” stuff like making guys wear weighted vests while they hurl empty beer kegs at each other doesn’t mean what they’re doing is effective.

The best S&C Coach is most likely someone you’ve never heard of with a mix of impressive academic credentials and practical experience. They’ll have a fundamental, no-nonsense approach to their programming, expect discipline and the completion of every rep prescribed, and use data to ensure that their athletes are progressing at an expected, consistent rate so as not to risk under/overtraining.

I personally believe that Feeley did quite well in his role here, but I’m sure he won’t be retained and I’ll be disappointed to see him go, yet optimistic we’ll move forward with another qualified coach in the future. My favorite S&C Coach is Jim Radcliffe over at Oregon, who is a well-known plyometric guy, but he is probably nearing retirement now and/or taking a more research-oriented/academic approach to training.

I was going to ask about this guy a few years back. Alleged recruiting violations this years got the ball rolling on a rough year for Herm. Small chance there might be some overall with that program.

JOE CONNOLLY (ASU)​

• TITLE Head Coach - Football Sports Performance

Joe Connolly - Football Coach - Arizona State University Athletics

Head Coach of Football Sports Performance Joe Connolly will be entering his fifth year at ASU when the 2022 season starts. Building and directing a talented

thesundevils.com

 

[ZuCrew]

*sigh* you were going real good there until you (falsely) claimed a handlebar mustache doesn't make one a good strength coach.

And cocaine. I was under the assumption S&C doubled for Strength and Conditioning while Screaming & doing Cocaine. I stand corrected.