Turn on Monday night football...

[LuCane]

...so you can watch what happens to a zone/edge rushing attack that cannot go downhill when necessary. Houston looks spectacular when they're creating creases, but when they face a physical front or a bigtime interior DL (as teams typically do when they play big games), they have a huge vulnerability. This was also on display yesterday with the Philly Eagles. After watching Bryce Brown tear it up, they couldn't get to the edge yesterday - even out of the spread - and got mauled.

In other words, I hope Fisch's taking notes of how teams like New England and New Orleans mix and match their run schemes, rather than stay predicated on the more "all or nothing" zone attack.

We have a chance to do some very good things on offense next year. I anticipate Fisch will evolve. Hope to see it.

 

[weownfsu]

I've given my thoughts a million times on this subject, but yep. Man do I miss those old counters we used to run with McGahee.

 

[RiDLer80]

Fisch occasionally runs counters/traps/power plays.

Duke's first TD against BC was behind a couple of pulling linemen. He just ran it out of the shotgun.

 

[FreePawn]

Fisch occasionally runs counters/traps/power plays.

Duke's first TD against BC was behind a couple of pulling linemen. He just ran it out of the shotgun.

We seemd to run a lot more counters at the start of the season (also out of the gun) but got away from it later.

 

[JHallCanes]

Rest easy, Lu

 

[jerzeycane]

...so you can watch what happens to a zone/edge rushing attack that cannot go downhill when necessary. Houston looks spectacular when they're creating creases, but when they face a physical front or a bigtime interior DL (as teams typically do when they play big games), they have a huge vulnerability. This was also on display yesterday with the Philly Eagles. After watching Bryce Brown tear it up, they couldn't get to the edge yesterday - even out of the spread - and got mauled.

In other words, I hope Fisch's taking notes of how teams like New England and New Orleans mix and match their run schemes, rather than stay predicated on the more "all or nothing" zone attack.

We have a chance to do some very good things on offense next year. I anticipate Fisch will evolve. Hope to see it.

Uh, what you got on Washington dominating people with it?

 

[GhostofVenice01]

Id like to see more running from under center rather than in the shotgun next year, but thats just me

 

[JHallCanes]

Id like to see more running from under center rather than in the shotgun next year, but thats just me

Amen brother. Duke is explosive as **** in short spaces. I get the whole shotgun formation thing once in a while but dammit mane, let him do what he does best.

 

[jerzeycane]

That game last night, was more about Andre Johnson not being Andre Johnson no more and them not having anyone else who could threaten the Patriots secondary.

 

[sebastian91]

That game last night, was more about Andre Johnson not being Andre Johnson no more and them not having anyone else who could threaten the Patriots secondary.

I didn't see it that way at all. Houston couldn't get Foster rolling early, Shaub throws a bad pick, and the Houston defense was awful for the first half. The game was over mid-way through the 2nd Q. The Pats were able to rush Shaub and take AJ out of the game because they knew Houston had to throw almost every down to try to get back in the game. 80+ catches for 1200+ yards already, but AJ isn't AJ anymore? Um, ok.

 

[kendallcanes]

The game last night was about VINCE WILFORK. He never gets enough love. He just Dominated and shut down any attempt at Houston running plays near him. No one could block him.

That's what our team is missing.

 

[jerzeycane]

That game last night, was more about Andre Johnson not being Andre Johnson no more and them not having anyone else who could threaten the Patriots secondary.

I didn't see it that way at all. Houston couldn't get Foster rolling early, Shaub throws a bad pick, and the Houston defense was awful for the first half. The game was over mid-way through the 2nd Q. The Pats were able to rush Shaub and take AJ out of the game because they knew Houston had to throw almost every down to try to get back in the game. 80+ catches for 1200+ yards already, but AJ isn't AJ anymore? Um, ok.

Stats can manipulated bro...Andre Johnson is not the same guy. Doesn't have the same explosion. He's either hurt or feeling the affects of age, but he's not that guy from a couple of years ago who was right with Fitzgerald as the best in the game.

It's not a precipitous decline either, just noticeable.

 

[LuCane]

...so you can watch what happens to a zone/edge rushing attack that cannot go downhill when necessary. Houston looks spectacular when they're creating creases, but when they face a physical front or a bigtime interior DL (as teams typically do when they play big games), they have a huge vulnerability. This was also on display yesterday with the Philly Eagles. After watching Bryce Brown tear it up, they couldn't get to the edge yesterday - even out of the spread - and got mauled.

In other words, I hope Fisch's taking notes of how teams like New England and New Orleans mix and match their run schemes, rather than stay predicated on the more "all or nothing" zone attack.

We have a chance to do some very good things on offense next year. I anticipate Fisch will evolve. Hope to see it.

Uh, what you got on Washington dominating people with it?

Uh, try to actually watch their schemes. They have a different element in there. He's one the fastest and most explosive athletes on the field, and he happens to be eligible to throw the forward pass. He averages nearly 60 yards a game running. Without that element and those stats, they'd be much more inconsistent and rank near the bottom third of the league. Even so, watch when they run the pistol. You'll see them mix in some quick-hitting runs to offset teams' defenders scraping across their zone schemes.

Next time you come with an "uh," you may want to reconsider your comment altogether.

 

[LuCane]

The game last night was about VINCE WILFORK. He never gets enough love. He just Dominated and shut down any attempt at Houston running plays near him. No one could block him.

That's what our team is missing.

And, all of this. Vince Wilfork types are the nukes of edge rushing schemes. If those linemen can't effectively move and get to the second level with ease, the entire scheme is blown up.

 

[jerzeycane]

...so you can watch what happens to a zone/edge rushing attack that cannot go downhill when necessary. Houston looks spectacular when they're creating creases, but when they face a physical front or a bigtime interior DL (as teams typically do when they play big games), they have a huge vulnerability. This was also on display yesterday with the Philly Eagles. After watching Bryce Brown tear it up, they couldn't get to the edge yesterday - even out of the spread - and got mauled.

In other words, I hope Fisch's taking notes of how teams like New England and New Orleans mix and match their run schemes, rather than stay predicated on the more "all or nothing" zone attack.

We have a chance to do some very good things on offense next year. I anticipate Fisch will evolve. Hope to see it.

Uh, what you got on Washington dominating people with it?

Uh, try to actually watch their schemes. They have a different element in there. He's one the fastest and most explosive athletes on the field, and he happens to be eligible to throw the forward pass. He averages nearly 60 yards a game running. Without that element and those stats, they'd be much more inconsistent and rank near the bottom third of the league. Even so, watch when they run the pistol. You'll see them mix in some quick-hitting runs to offset teams' defenders scraping across their zone schemes.

Next time you come with an "uh," you may want to reconsider your comment altogether.

I'm with you on mixing it up, but I just watched my Giants get crushed by that zone blocking scheme twice and the Eagles did the same to us. There were plenty of other factors going on last night that had nothing to do with their blocking scheme.

The Broncos won two super bowls with it, so I'm inclined to say that the scheme is not the issue as much as it is personnel and not having alternative threats.

 

[sebastian91]

That game last night, was more about Andre Johnson not being Andre Johnson no more and them not having anyone else who could threaten the Patriots secondary.

I didn't see it that way at all. Houston couldn't get Foster rolling early, Shaub throws a bad pick, and the Houston defense was awful for the first half. The game was over mid-way through the 2nd Q. The Pats were able to rush Shaub and take AJ out of the game because they knew Houston had to throw almost every down to try to get back in the game. 80+ catches for 1200+ yards already, but AJ isn't AJ anymore? Um, ok.

Stats can manipulated bro...Andre Johnson is not the same guy. Doesn't have the same explosion. He's either hurt or feeling the affects of age, but he's not that guy from a couple of years ago who was right with Fitzgerald as the best in the game.

It's not a precipitous decline either, just noticeable.

How do you manipulate # of catches and receiving yards??? AJ catches ball, gains yards. They get added up. Of course he's gotten older, and of course he's lost a step. Everyone does. Yet, he's having one of his best seasons and remains pretty much the classiest guy in the whole **** league.

As the poster above said, that game was about Big Vince a lot more than it was about AJ. It's hard to throw and catch when your opponent knows you're going to do it on every play.

 

[LuCane]

...so you can watch what happens to a zone/edge rushing attack that cannot go downhill when necessary. Houston looks spectacular when they're creating creases, but when they face a physical front or a bigtime interior DL (as teams typically do when they play big games), they have a huge vulnerability. This was also on display yesterday with the Philly Eagles. After watching Bryce Brown tear it up, they couldn't get to the edge yesterday - even out of the spread - and got mauled.

In other words, I hope Fisch's taking notes of how teams like New England and New Orleans mix and match their run schemes, rather than stay predicated on the more "all or nothing" zone attack.

We have a chance to do some very good things on offense next year. I anticipate Fisch will evolve. Hope to see it.

Uh, what you got on Washington dominating people with it?

Uh, try to actually watch their schemes. They have a different element in there. He's one the fastest and most explosive athletes on the field, and he happens to be eligible to throw the forward pass. He averages nearly 60 yards a game running. Without that element and those stats, they'd be much more inconsistent and rank near the bottom third of the league. Even so, watch when they run the pistol. You'll see them mix in some quick-hitting runs to offset teams' defenders scraping across their zone schemes.

Next time you come with an "uh," you may want to reconsider your comment altogether.

I'm with you on mixing it up, but I just watched my Giants get crushed by that zone blocking scheme twice and the Eagles did the same to us. There were plenty of other factors going on last night that had nothing to do with their blocking scheme.

The Broncos won two super bowls with it, so I'm inclined to say that the scheme is not the issue as much as it is personnel and not having alternative threats.

The Broncos won two Superbowls with it before defenses adjusted and WITH a HOF QB. It can be done, but it's not the type of rushing scheme that gets consistent enough results in the really tough games (the ones where defenses tend to be legit and contain serious interior linemen).

 

[jerzeycane]

...so you can watch what happens to a zone/edge rushing attack that cannot go downhill when necessary. Houston looks spectacular when they're creating creases, but when they face a physical front or a bigtime interior DL (as teams typically do when they play big games), they have a huge vulnerability. This was also on display yesterday with the Philly Eagles. After watching Bryce Brown tear it up, they couldn't get to the edge yesterday - even out of the spread - and got mauled.

In other words, I hope Fisch's taking notes of how teams like New England and New Orleans mix and match their run schemes, rather than stay predicated on the more "all or nothing" zone attack.

We have a chance to do some very good things on offense next year. I anticipate Fisch will evolve. Hope to see it.

Uh, what you got on Washington dominating people with it?

Uh, try to actually watch their schemes. They have a different element in there. He's one the fastest and most explosive athletes on the field, and he happens to be eligible to throw the forward pass. He averages nearly 60 yards a game running. Without that element and those stats, they'd be much more inconsistent and rank near the bottom third of the league. Even so, watch when they run the pistol. You'll see them mix in some quick-hitting runs to offset teams' defenders scraping across their zone schemes.

Next time you come with an "uh," you may want to reconsider your comment altogether.

I'm with you on mixing it up, but I just watched my Giants get crushed by that zone blocking scheme twice and the Eagles did the same to us. There were plenty of other factors going on last night that had nothing to do with their blocking scheme.

The Broncos won two super bowls with it, so I'm inclined to say that the scheme is not the issue as much as it is personnel and not having alternative threats.

The Broncos won two Superbowls with it before defenses adjusted and WITH a HOF QB. It can be done, but it's not the type of rushing scheme that gets consistent enough results in the really tough games (the ones where defenses tend to be legit and contain serious interior linemen).

Lu, don't take this as me being snarky because it's a real question...you been a coach somewhere during your life?

 

[jerzeycane]

That game last night, was more about Andre Johnson not being Andre Johnson no more and them not having anyone else who could threaten the Patriots secondary.

I didn't see it that way at all. Houston couldn't get Foster rolling early, Shaub throws a bad pick, and the Houston defense was awful for the first half. The game was over mid-way through the 2nd Q. The Pats were able to rush Shaub and take AJ out of the game because they knew Houston had to throw almost every down to try to get back in the game. 80+ catches for 1200+ yards already, but AJ isn't AJ anymore? Um, ok.

Stats can manipulated bro...Andre Johnson is not the same guy. Doesn't have the same explosion. He's either hurt or feeling the affects of age, but he's not that guy from a couple of years ago who was right with Fitzgerald as the best in the game.

It's not a precipitous decline either, just noticeable.

How do you manipulate # of catches and receiving yards??? AJ catches ball, gains yards. They get added up. Of course he's gotten older, and of course he's lost a step. Everyone does. Yet, he's having one of his best seasons and remains pretty much the classiest guy in the whole **** league.

As the poster above said, that game was about Big Vince a lot more than it was about AJ. It's hard to throw and catch when your opponent knows you're going to do it on every play.

Physically Andre Johnson is not the same. Jerry Rice was still catching tons of balls later in his career but don't tell me he was the same guy. Production and Skill Set are not "1+1=2"

 

[LuCane]

Uh, what you got on Washington dominating people with it?

Uh, try to actually watch their schemes. They have a different element in there. He's one the fastest and most explosive athletes on the field, and he happens to be eligible to throw the forward pass. He averages nearly 60 yards a game running. Without that element and those stats, they'd be much more inconsistent and rank near the bottom third of the league. Even so, watch when they run the pistol. You'll see them mix in some quick-hitting runs to offset teams' defenders scraping across their zone schemes.

Next time you come with an "uh," you may want to reconsider your comment altogether.

I'm with you on mixing it up, but I just watched my Giants get crushed by that zone blocking scheme twice and the Eagles did the same to us. There were plenty of other factors going on last night that had nothing to do with their blocking scheme.

The Broncos won two super bowls with it, so I'm inclined to say that the scheme is not the issue as much as it is personnel and not having alternative threats.

The Broncos won two Superbowls with it before defenses adjusted and WITH a HOF QB. It can be done, but it's not the type of rushing scheme that gets consistent enough results in the really tough games (the ones where defenses tend to be legit and contain serious interior linemen).

Lu, don't take this as me being snarky because it's a real question...you been a coach somewhere during your life?

Yes, though nothing and nowhere where you'd be impressed. And, if not for other reasons, as most people who were over on Canestime Premium know, I legitimately considered dropping out of law school and being "that" guy (the one who eats **** for approximately 8 years before getting any kind of opportunity). I sat in an office at the Hecht center and just couldn't make the decision to climb any kind of football ladder without any special "in" or playing background.

None of that gives me special insight into the game or anything. I just prefer to discuss the technical side of football and have been obsessed with it since I was a kid. There are plenty of guys on this board and others that have a fantastic understanding and can offer up better substance than I. For example, if you come across a post made by Dynasty, read it and breathe it in. Gogeta is another guy who has some exceptional insights, especially along the trenches. The list goes on.