South Florida 3-stars > everyone else's 4-stars

[Canesvolls]

Isn’t this what made Butch great, talent evaluation?? No reason to think Richt could not do the same here.

 

[ShadowSpring]

Isn’t this what made Butch great, talent evaluation?? No reason to think Richt could not do the same here.

A million times yes!!!!

You get it.

 

[RomeoJunior]

Leave 5 stars out of it...as it clouds the discussion just as much imo. No one on this board suggests to pass on 5 star kids.

On average, there are a great deal more should-be-4-stars than the services tag as such,...compared to elsewhere


This is a 3 star vs 4 star discussion.

If you are truly interested in whether things are unevenly evaluated...look at comparitive county populations right along with the posted Houston's county population compared to Miami's...for example...isint even close.

Harris County is a little under twice the size of Miami's.
[INSTAGRAM][INSTAGRAM][/INSTAGRAM][/INSTAGRAM]

 

[canes614]

So after 4 pages we are in agreement and what I been saying all along.

It's a good idea to take 4-5* players as they have a higher percentage of being hits and developing into good players. Not rocket science.

It's also a fact there are huge numbers of 2-3* players that become All-American players. There happens to be huge numbers of these players from South Florida.

Oh gee oh darn.....maybe it would be a good idea to sign the bluechip players from South Florida as the base of a class (high percentage of hit) and then fill it in with diamonds in the rough the staff is very high on. Hmmm. Maybe that would be good. Cause if we can find these stud players the services miss we will kick Sabans ***.

So take Blades, Ivey, Frierson, Hall, Campbell, Surtain, and fill it in with athletes like Bethel. That would be a good idea. The 'he's not Miami caliber' clowns are just being lazy and front runners. He may very well be 'Miami caliber' and you have no idea.

Talent evaluation.

I'd rather go after sleepers like Ken Montgomery jr. or Taiyon Palmer....just don't see a kid labeled as a "athlete" not heavily involved in HS ever playing a down at Miami...it "might" be different if MNW was loaded with playmakers or top notch DBs...

Bethel was a key WR to a championship MNW squad.....heavily involved.

Hurt last night? He wasn't involved on national TV....he should be returning punts or something didn't see him do anything....

 

[Canesvolls]

I do not understand why the board has to be so argumentative? We all have something in common, the canes. I think the conclusion is something like this. The total number of 3 star studs in south Florida is higher than anywhere. Even if only 7% of 3 stars are studs (I am not sure the 7% is actually the right number, might be higher). However, an excellent talent evaluator like Butch and I am pretty sure Richt greatly enhances our chances of finding the stud 3 star because they can evaluate. So being located in south Florida is like having a stacked deck. Having Richt is like having a MIT trained card counter. So the next few years are going to be great. Let’s celebrate guys. Merry Christmas. I think we got our gift.

 

[BoxingRobes]

I agree with OPs assessment.

 

[OriginalCanesCanesCanes]

C'mon D - you are the one selectively quoting there as the very next sentences were "It also has more low-quality 3 stars. It just has more 3 stars, period."

I quoted the only part that mattered. South Florida produces the most three-stars who play like four-stars. OP admitted it and the NFL data makes it clear. That's the point.

The biggest problem with the OP (aside from huge methodological flaws) is that the volume of studs is what matters.

Who cares if Rivals interns slap three stars on so many fringe South Florida kids they've never seen? They do that to cover their bases because they know South Florida produces the most sleepers. They don't want another unranked Antonio Brown.

Miami isn't recruiting everyone listed as three stars. Their three-stars are handpicked from the biggest group of sleepers in the country. I killed Golden for his three-stars at the time because they were the wrong three stars. Guys like Wiggins and Ivey are the right ones.

If the point is that we should not just assume that a South Florida three-star is good, it is an empty one. Nobody does that. I have a tacked thread at the top discussing all the three and two-stars at each position. The board was built on comparing those guys.

We need the best players in South Florida. If we aren't getting the best three stars down here, we won't be winning championships.

Well argued and reasoned by you.

I actually appreciate the time meat puts in but he’s made a classic mistake: he’s working backwards from a pet theory and selecting the data that confirms it.

Confirmation bias.

Actual results speak to the truth of the matter, as you have noted and he has grudgingly admitted.

 

[ShadowSpring]

So after 4 pages we are in agreement and what I been saying all along.

It's a good idea to take 4-5* players as they have a higher percentage of being hits and developing into good players. Not rocket science.

It's also a fact there are huge numbers of 2-3* players that become All-American players. There happens to be huge numbers of these players from South Florida.

Oh gee oh darn.....maybe it would be a good idea to sign the bluechip players from South Florida as the base of a class (high percentage of hit) and then fill it in with diamonds in the rough the staff is very high on. Hmmm. Maybe that would be good. Cause if we can find these stud players the services miss we will kick Sabans ***.

So take Blades, Ivey, Frierson, Hall, Campbell, Surtain, and fill it in with athletes like Bethel. That would be a good idea. The 'he's not Miami caliber' clowns are just being lazy and front runners. He may very well be 'Miami caliber' and you have no idea.

Talent evaluation.

I'd rather go after sleepers like Ken Montgomery jr. or Taiyon Palmer....just don't see a kid labeled as a "athlete" not heavily involved in HS ever playing a down at Miami...it "might" be different if MNW was loaded with playmakers or top notch DBs...

Bethel was a key WR to a championship MNW squad.....heavily involved.

Hurt last night? He wasn't involved on national TV....he should be returning punts or something didn't see him do anything....

The staff had Bethel in camp and offered him on the spot when they saw him play CB. They don't want Wilson nor Wildgoose. They wanted Bethel.

How bout relying on our own staff for talent evaluation and not how many magical fairy dust stars the recruiting services put next to a kids name?

Have some faith in our Canes fam.

 

[canes614]

So after 4 pages we are in agreement and what I been saying all along.

It's a good idea to take 4-5* players as they have a higher percentage of being hits and developing into good players. Not rocket science.

It's also a fact there are huge numbers of 2-3* players that become All-American players. There happens to be huge numbers of these players from South Florida.

Oh gee oh darn.....maybe it would be a good idea to sign the bluechip players from South Florida as the base of a class (high percentage of hit) and then fill it in with diamonds in the rough the staff is very high on. Hmmm. Maybe that would be good. Cause if we can find these stud players the services miss we will kick Sabans ***.

So take Blades, Ivey, Frierson, Hall, Campbell, Surtain, and fill it in with athletes like Bethel. That would be a good idea. The 'he's not Miami caliber' clowns are just being lazy and front runners. He may very well be 'Miami caliber' and you have no idea.

Talent evaluation.

I'd rather go after sleepers like Ken Montgomery jr. or Taiyon Palmer....just don't see a kid labeled as a "athlete" not heavily involved in HS ever playing a down at Miami...it "might" be different if MNW was loaded with playmakers or top notch DBs...

Bethel was a key WR to a championship MNW squad.....heavily involved.

Hurt last night? He wasn't involved on national TV....he should be returning punts or something didn't see him do anything....

The staff had Bethel in camp and offered him on the spot when they saw him play CB. They don't want Wilson nor Wildgoose. They wanted Bethel.

How bout relying on our own staff for talent evaluation and not how many magical fairy dust stars the recruiting services put next to a kids name?

Have some faith in our Canes fam.

I guess you're saying his hs coaches under utlized the kids Miami caliber potential down the stretch? It's possible....just don't believe he would be capable of ever playing a down without prior training at the position.....Miami is recruiting more polished DBs...it's also possible the staff made a mistake.... I'd take Schwartz as a athlete before Bethel....he's faster with better film on both sides of the ball....also had a big-time post season....UA AA, fastest football player in America etc....

 

[Miami Nights]

Like in most cases it really depends on who is recruiting a certain player. Looking at a guy and saying he's better than that guy just based on him being a 5 star is where people go wrong.

The problem with message boards is guys look at star rating and automatically assume a player is better than some guy that's a 3 star without ever seeing him play.

Like I said, what it comes drown to is what coach is evaluation these players and how their coaching factors into a players skill set.

 

[TheSwagger1]

Players are individual humans with different and unique physical and mental traits and childhood/youth environments. They grow up in unique households with unique caregivers, playing against a unique set of competition and in unique circumstances (STA vs Edison for example). The generic "South Florida kid" that gets referenced on here does not exist in the way that people want it to exist. Many kids grow up in circumstances that cultivate the traits required to succeed and don't get the press they deserve. Many don't develop the type of mental fortitude required to have success but get praised with huge star ratings. Many have unique physical characteristics, many don't. Increasingly South Florida kids are getting treated like Gods and/or currency, just like they have in Texas since the 1980s, and that's not a positive development for University of Miami football. You have to determine which "South Florida kids" are Trajan Bandy types and which are Ermon Lane types, because there are a BUNCH of both varieties down there. I would agree that on average South Florida produces more of the Trajan Bandy types than anywhere else on earth - not debatable - but you can't apply that sort of optimism with every kid down there. The area produces a ton of busts and a ton of 3 star kids who are really just 3 star kids, too. Fans making it overly simplistic urging to just "take South Florida kids" are missing the boat. That's the difference between Butch Davis's "south Florida kids" and the guys Al Golden took flyers on. Sometimes Ryan Mayes is just Ryan Mayes.

 

[DMoney]

Players are individual humans with different and unique physical and mental traits and childhood/youth environments. .

The unifying factor is competition. These kids compete at the highest level from Pop Warner through 7on7s. Fridays, too, but it goes beyond that.

That's why South Florida produces so many more NFL players than any other region. Even the undrafted players are uniquely suited for the cutthroat, competitive nature of an NFL camp. It's a familiar environment.

 

[DTP]

There's just way too many variables to do a comprehensive research study on this topic. Just for an example, we're using "NFL draft pick" as the determining factor as to whether a player had a successful college career. There's plenty of guys who ball out in college but don't get drafted for a multitude of reasons. If I'm building a college football team, I'm taking Lamar Jackson every time over that stiff in Wyoming even though the NFL is going to draft the Wyoming kid much earlier than Jackson. So, what measuring stick do you use? All Americans? All conference? Even those lists tend to be biased.

My personal opinion: If the last few spots on your recruiting board come down to a few 3 star guys from Florida (more specifically, south Florida) and a few 3 star guys from other states. I'm riding with the local kids. There's a reason every single FBS team is down here scouting and recruiting. Yeah, the 4 and 5 star guys are going to get gobbled up by the big boys but there's a good chance you might land a 3 star guy who fell through the cracks. I mean jeez even look at the non power 5 teams in Florida cleaning up their respective conferences with 3 star Florida talent up and down their rosters.

 

[dedostheibis]

Thia low 3 star zach moss kis is a beast

 

[supacane]

How the **** can someone judge players coached by Golden. All evaluations should be null particularly in the defensive side. Bandy was a 3 star FL recruit. And i use rivals for these, i think they are the most reliable.

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[brock]

How the **** can someone judge players coached by Golden. All evaluations should be null particularly in the defensive side. Bandy was a 3 star FL recruit. And i use rivals for these, i think they are the most reliable.

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Bandy was a composite 4 star and actually his highest rating grade came from rivals who rated him 109 overall

 

[Coach Macho]

A 3-star kid in South Florida played against 4/5 kids on a weekly basis. That's gotta be worth something.

 

[Coach Macho]

OP is making up numbers.

Went back and looked at the 247 composite and very quickly found two kids from 2012 class who have already collected NFL checks (Isidora and Waters) and one from 2014 headed there (Jackson). None of them appeared on OP's list.

It's also funny that he started in 2012, because we sent three composite 3*s to the pros in 2011 (Perryman, Dorsett and Armbrister) and three in 2010 (Hurns, Feliciano and Walford). I didn't scrutinize the rest, but there is clearly some selective math going on.

And the obvious answer is that Golden was getting the wrong three stars. We discussed it on this board for years. Here are some guys off the top of my head who were 247 composite three stars during that time period:

Lamar Jackson
Quinton Flowers
Quincy Wilson
Eddie Jackson
Skai Moore
Fabian Moreau
Steve Ishmael
James Burgess (16 tackles a couple weeks ago against Jaguars)

There are many more.

I was also going to go back and show how all the local south florida gurus around here were talking up guys like Trayone Gray, Tyre Brady, James King, Walter Tucker, Mike Smith, and Sheldrick Redwine, etc.... but I don't want to call anyone out.

First of all, the "South Florida gurus" were the ones crying about the guys Golden didn't offer. Quincy Wilson, Flowers, Reshard Fenton, Skai Moore, Isiah McKenzie, Reginald Bain, Denver Kirkland. Those guys turned out pretty well, don't you think?

Second, let's talk about that list. Tyre Brady was a Biletnikoff semifinalist, so great example by you. I yelled for Redwine to get a late offer, and all he did was start for a Top 10 team while an out-of-state 4* like Kiy Hester left town with his tail between his legs. I never even heard of James King and Walter Tucker until we started recruiting them. Mike Smith blew out his knee as a HS senior and hasn't consistently been the same player. The one I'll give you is Trayone Gray. I thought he'd be great. But sometimes you can't measure what's in between the ears. South Florida guys are usually better there, which is why so many are in the league.

The key to recruiting at Miami is simple. Get the top-ranked South Florida kids. Get the best of the underrated local guys. Sprinkle in out-of-staters if you think they'll be first rounders. Richt and especially Diaz understand this, so I'm not concerned that OP doesn't.

You said it before I could. (and better than I could)


Glad to see Burgess ballin'. I always considered him a Golden miss.

 

[BoxingRobes]

Thia low 3 star zach moss kis is a beast

Should have been a Cane.

 

[Hurricane23]

Tyre Brady is a Balla. He is dominating at Marshall. He will be drafted in the NFL. Wish he could have kept his stuff together while at the U.

It's over kill to say he's dominating, but he's playing good.