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South Florida 3-stars > everyone else's 4-stars

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OP is making up numbers.

Went back and looked at the 247 composite and very quickly found two kids from 2012 class who have already collected NFL checks (Isidora and Waters) and one from 2014 headed there (Jackson). None of them appeared on OP's list.

It's also funny that he started in 2012, because we sent three composite 3*s to the pros in 2011 (Perryman, Dorsett and Armbrister) and three in 2010 (Hurns, Feliciano and Walford). I didn't scrutinize the rest, but there is clearly some selective math going on.

And the obvious answer is that Golden was getting the wrong three stars. We discussed it on this board for years. Here are some guys off the top of my head who were 247 composite three stars during that time period:

Lamar Jackson
Quinton Flowers
Quincy Wilson
Eddie Jackson
Skai Moore
Fabian Moreau
Steve Ishmael
James Burgess (16 tackles a couple weeks ago against Jaguars)

There are many more.

Meat said:
I was also going to go back and show how all the local south florida gurus around here were talking up guys like Trayone Gray, Tyre Brady, James King, Walter Tucker, Mike Smith, and Sheldrick Redwine, etc.... but I don't want to call anyone out.
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First of all, the "South Florida gurus" were the ones crying about the guys Golden didn't offer. Quincy Wilson, Flowers, Reshard Fenton, Skai Moore, Isiah McKenzie, Reginald Bain, Denver Kirkland. Those guys turned out pretty well, don't you think?

Second, let's talk about that list. Tyre Brady was a Biletnikoff semifinalist, so great example by you. I yelled for Redwine to get a late offer, and all he did was start for a Top 10 team while an out-of-state 4* like Kiy Hester left town with his tail between his legs. I never even heard of James King and Walter Tucker until we started recruiting them. Mike Smith blew out his knee as a HS senior and hasn't consistently been the same player. The one I'll give you is Trayone Gray. I thought he'd be great. But sometimes you can't measure what's in between the ears. South Florida guys are usually better there, which is why so many are in the league.

The key to recruiting at Miami is simple. Get the top-ranked South Florida kids. Get the best of the underrated local guys. Sprinkle in out-of-staters if you think they'll be first rounders. Richt and especially Diaz understand this, so I'm not concerned that OP doesn't.
 
Al Golden was getting the leftover 3* recruits. He was recruiting small slow kids that nobody else wanted.

There's a big difference in taking kids that are raw and need to develop as 3* athletes and kids like Knowles and Redwine that are athletically limited.

3* recruits are statistically less likely to become good players, so you shouldn't rely on them as the core of a class. Golden was doing this cause he couldn't recruit.

There's a massive amount of 3* and 2* kids that become All-american type players every single cycle. The key is finding them.

This is not an argument against higher rated players. Take the high rated blue Chip kids, but also find the diamonds in the rough. That is how Miami has won championships. A Miami coaching staff that is recruiting south Florida daily should be able to find these a few of these 3* ballas.

This is not an either/or, binary argument. Take both types of kids. You apparently don't understand this concept and only want 5* kids.

According to the OP 3* recruits are 3* recruits period and thus we should not have offered RJ McIntosh whom was the best player on the team last year. A 3* is a 3* and thus suck.

The staff should immediately rescind offers to Rousseau, Wiggins, Campbell, Joyner, and George. Clearly the OP is right and 3* players suck. also players like Bethel even tho they are great athletes and the staff loves what they saw in a camp aren't Miami caliber players cause they don't have another magical * next to their name. Stars are magical and endow athletes with more ability once awarded. The power of the magical * is undefeated.

It is lazy and short sighted to conclude every 3* player is not 'Miami Caliber'.
 
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I'd like to see a comparison of our 4 and 5 star talent compared to the rest of the country.

For the life of me, I don't understand how Garvin wasn't a 5 star. ****, he was a 3 star that got a 4th late. All he did was destroy everyone in his path, and against the best competition.
 
The truth about stars

It's one man opinion just like ******** everybody gots one
 
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you can't tell me that someone with DJ Ivey ability will be just a 3 star had he played in Jersey, Ohio and was a penn state/ND lean
 
Another flaw in this analysis is using "being drafted" as the criterion for identifying a successful recruit. There are plenty of guys out there who were stellar players at the college level but didn't get drafted. A recruit doesn't have to get drafted to be a **** good player and contributor at the college level. The point of recruiting is to win games at the college level. If they are good enough to get drafted, good for them.
 
ShadowSpring said:
Al Golden was getting the leftover 3* recruits. He was recruiting small slow kids that nobody else wanted.

There's a big difference in taking kids that are raw and need to develop as 3* athletes and kids like Knowles and Redwine that are athletically limited.

3* recruits are statistically less likely to become good players, so you shouldn't rely on them as the core of a class. Golden was doing this cause he couldn't recruit.

There's a massive amount of 3* and 2* kids that become All-american type players every single cycle. The key is finding them.

This is not an argument against higher rated players. Take the high rated blue Chip kids, but also find the diamonds in the rough. That is how Miami has won championships. A Miami coaching staff that is recruiting south Florida daily should be able to find these a few of these 3* ballas.

This is not an either/or, binary argument. Take both types of kids. You apparently don't understand this concept and only want 5* kids.

According to the OP 3* recruits are 3* recruits period and thus we should not have offered RJ McIntosh whom was the best player on the team last year. A 3* is a 3* and thus suck.

The staff should immediately rescind offers to Rousseau, Wiggins, Campbell, Joyner, and George. Clearly the OP is right and 3* players suck. also players like Bethel even tho they are great athletes and the staff loves what they saw in a camp aren't Miami caliber players cause they don't have another magical * next to their name. Stars are magical and endow athletes with more ability once awarded. The power of the magical * is undefeated.

It is lazy and short sighted to conclude every 3* player is not 'Miami Caliber'.
Click to expand...

Anyone who watched rj mcintosh film new he was underrated and will turn into a high level player. Same thing with Dee Wiggins. There’s a difference , you don’t see that type of ability jump off the screen with a guy like Nigel Bethel for an example
 
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Link all your sources please.

Each and every one.

There’s something in science and mathematics called peer review, meathead.

Maybe you’ve heard of it. Maybe you haven’t.

But if you’re going to come on here and posit a theory and then confirm it with statistics, without sourcing these statistics, there is no way to confirm the validity of your conclusions.

And by the way, it doesn’t take a Rhodes scholar for anyone to agree that as a general rule, there is absolute correlation with highly rated classes and better performance over time. That’s basically indisputable.

But there are some specific claims you are making which can’t be confirmed with selective and unconfirmed and unreviewed data, as D$ so clearly illustrates above.
 
brock said:
ShadowSpring said:
Al Golden was getting the leftover 3* recruits. He was recruiting small slow kids that nobody else wanted.

There's a big difference in taking kids that are raw and need to develop as 3* athletes and kids like Knowles and Redwine that are athletically limited.

3* recruits are statistically less likely to become good players, so you shouldn't rely on them as the core of a class. Golden was doing this cause he couldn't recruit.

There's a massive amount of 3* and 2* kids that become All-american type players every single cycle. The key is finding them.

This is not an argument against higher rated players. Take the high rated blue Chip kids, but also find the diamonds in the rough. That is how Miami has won championships. A Miami coaching staff that is recruiting south Florida daily should be able to find these a few of these 3* ballas.

This is not an either/or, binary argument. Take both types of kids. You apparently don't understand this concept and only want 5* kids.

According to the OP 3* recruits are 3* recruits period and thus we should not have offered RJ McIntosh whom was the best player on the team last year. A 3* is a 3* and thus suck.

The staff should immediately rescind offers to Rousseau, Wiggins, Campbell, Joyner, and George. Clearly the OP is right and 3* players suck. also players like Bethel even tho they are great athletes and the staff loves what they saw in a camp aren't Miami caliber players cause they don't have another magical * next to their name. Stars are magical and endow athletes with more ability once awarded. The power of the magical * is undefeated.

It is lazy and short sighted to conclude every 3* player is not 'Miami Caliber'.
Click to expand...

Anyone who watched rj mcintosh film new he was underrated and will turn into a high level player. Same thing with Dee Wiggins. There’s a difference , you don’t see that type of ability jump off the screen with a guy like Nigel Bethel for an example
Click to expand...

10.6 100m and 4.38 40 yd dash at 6-1

Not to mention a few INT's at CB this year and a ton of deep TD's as a WR.

Several posters have told you he was very impressive in person yet you don't want to listen.

The coaches offered him when they saw him in person play CB. He impressed them. Yet you don't want to listen.

This is not a 5-9 short kid that runs a 4.6 or 4.7. This is one of the better athletes in Dade and he'd be top 5 or 6 athletes on the whole team if we take him. He's a better athlete than our starting 4 db's currently. That is a **** of a lot to work with as a potential #5-7 db in a class.
 
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OriginalCanesCanesCanes said:
Link all your sources please.

Each and every one.

There’s something in science and mathematics called peer review, meathead.

Maybe you’ve heard of it. Maybe you haven’t.

But if you’re going to come on here and posit a theory and then confirm it with statistics, without sourcing these statistics, there is no way to confirm the validity of your conclusions.

And by the way, it doesn’t take a Rhodes scholar for anyone to agree that as a general rule, there is absolute correlation with highly rated classes and better performance over time. That’s basically indisputable.

But there are some specific claims you are making which can’t be confirmed with selective and unconfirmed and unreviewed data, as D$ so clearly illustrates above.
Click to expand...

There's a difference between propaganda and a verifiable fact backed up via data.

The guy is making a scare crow argument based on something nobody is even disputing. Then he's claiming victory so he can feel all mushy inside.
 
Meat said:
No_Fly_Zone said:
That's not terribly persuasive to me. If you want a better comparison, take all 3*s from a class and determine % drafted. Do the same for Florida kids that same year. Compare the percentages. If the numbers are close, then a 3* is a 3*. Otherwise...
Click to expand...

I'll do that. Would actually be interesting to see what the results are.

I was also going to go back and show how all the local south florida gurus around here were talking up guys like Trayone Gray, Tyre Brady, James King, Walter Tucker, Mike Smith, and Sheldrick Redwine, etc.... but I don't want to call anyone out.

But it's kind of funny in retrospect how some dudes look like world beaters when you have your South Florida shades on.
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Redwine actually showed some flashes this season. Perhaps he would be better if he wasn't originally corched up by Golden.
 
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Meat said:
No_Fly_Zone said:
That's not terribly persuasive to me. If you want a better comparison, take all 3*s from a class and determine % drafted. Do the same for Florida kids that same year. Compare the percentages. If the numbers are close, then a 3* is a 3*. Otherwise...
Click to expand...

Done. Check the OP for the chart.

There were a total of 13 three-stars taken out of a total of 179 that were eligible in the state of Florida that year.

That means that 7.2% of Florida 3-stars were selected for the draft.

In the entire United States, 90 3-stars were picked out of 1202 total that were eligible. That's 7.4% of all three-stars that were selected for the draft.

So Florida 3-stars performed almost exactly even with the rest of America's.
Click to expand...

Very solid work. This is pretty strong evidence to rebut the old "our 3* is like your 4*" argument.

Edit: If true. D$ Seems to have some glaring omissions.
 
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It's not all about the stars. It's about evaluating the players.

It seems to me that Richt and his staff have done a very good job of recruiting a certain type of personality. That's why Henderson being a ***** at a All Star Game resulted in him receiving an angry phone call from Rumph (allegedly) and him skipping off to Florida.

Richt won 10 games this year so I'm going to ride with what he's building.
 
OldhamA said:
It's not all about the stars. It's about evaluating the players.

It seems to me that Richt and his staff have done a very good job of recruiting a certain type of personality. That's why Henderson being a ***** at a All Star Game resulted in him receiving an angry phone call from Rumph (allegedly) and him skipping off to Florida.

Richt won 10 games this year so I'm going to ride with what he's building.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

The #1 thing in recruiting is talent evaluation. The #2 thing is landing those kids that you target.

Most likely if a staff is doing those 2 things really well, they will sign a lot of 4-5* kids and some diamond in the rough mixed in there.

So once again what is the OP arguing?
 
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James King was a 2 star when we recruited him. Everyone knew he didn’t belong here.
 
Tyre Brady Is one of the better receivers in the country right now. Shouldn't have let him go
 
While we wait for OP to explain why he omitted key players and didn't back up his data, here are the numbers we know:

Cities with most NFL players
Miami, FL - 25
Houston, TX - 17
Fort Lauderdale, FL - 15
Cincinnati, OH - 14
Pittsburgh, PA - 12
Washington, DC - 12
Cleveland, OH - 11
Las Vegas, NV - 11
New Orleans, LA - 11
Tampa, FL - 11
Birmingham, AL - 10
Dallas, TX - 10
Detroit, MI - 10
Los Angeles, CA - 10

The gap between Miami and #2 is bigger than the gap between #2 and #15 . And Fort Lauderdale is third.

The majority of those guys are three star players or below on 247 composite. That includes some of the best players on the planet: Antonio Brown, TY Hilton, Geno Atkins, Xavier Rhodes and Lavonte David.

"Meat" should give a call to Richt and tell him that he believes a myth. Because Richt has said the same thing about South Florida 3-stars numerous times. The players are just better down here, on average, from top to bottom.

https://www.chatsports.com/nfl/a/he...ies-producing-most-nfl-talent-right-now-35444
 
Still waiting on sources.

Definitive conclusions based on such precise statistics are totally worthless unless the source material can be reviewed.

It’s literally science, folks.
 
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