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Question for the counter experts
- Thread starter grover
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Simple, 1 counter per kid for the class along with the 85 limit they come in as most arrive in summer or August.
Only kids that don't count are walk-ons that have been on campus for 2 years, they only count toward the 85 and not the class.
In short, we are burning spots to make up for misses on the '18 HS kids.
Only kids that don't count are walk-ons that have been on campus for 2 years, they only count toward the 85 and not the class.
In short, we are burning spots to make up for misses on the '18 HS kids.
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yeah what above dude said. Any incoming recruit or transfer including grad transfer counts as an initial counter - which you're limited to 25 per season. And any walk on that is an underclassman that is given a scholarship counts as a Initial counter too. However early enrollees can be back counted for the previous recruiting class (because they enter school in spring semester which is technically during previous season).
But no matter what you need to stay under the 85 limit.
IDK if LS Clay James is going to be a scholarship player or not, but assuming he's not then we have a 23 man 2018 recruiting class, and the plan is to bring in 2 Grad Transfers, pushing the total initial counters used in 2018 to 25. We had 28 to work with, and since we have at least 3 EEs, technically we will only have used 22 initial counters for the 2018 season, leaving 3 extra for the 2019 class to be backcounted. = we can bring in a max of 28 in 2019....however we will need attrition to be able to do that because it would put us over the 85 man limit if we took 28 and only current seniors left.
But no matter what you need to stay under the 85 limit.
IDK if LS Clay James is going to be a scholarship player or not, but assuming he's not then we have a 23 man 2018 recruiting class, and the plan is to bring in 2 Grad Transfers, pushing the total initial counters used in 2018 to 25. We had 28 to work with, and since we have at least 3 EEs, technically we will only have used 22 initial counters for the 2018 season, leaving 3 extra for the 2019 class to be backcounted. = we can bring in a max of 28 in 2019....however we will need attrition to be able to do that because it would put us over the 85 man limit if we took 28 and only current seniors left.
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nailed it
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It is not "burning spots" if (a) we are below 85, and (b) they will be gone in a year.
You can't enroll everyone in January. There will always be kids who enroll in the summer. And those kids will take the spots of grad transfers who leave.
One of the most significant problems that BOTH Shannon and Golden had was that they could barely ever acknowledge past recruiting mistakes by going out and getting transfers or grad-transfers. It is lovely to have 25 amazing freshmen every year, with each and every one developing into an NFL draftee, but we all know that isn't a realistic expectation.
And if you want to wake up to the reality of transfers and grad-transfers, be aware that both Saban and Urban, each a MASTER of the numbers game and staying as close to 85 as is possible, take transfers and grad-transfers on occasion.
The reality is that unless you have a couple of rings (as Saban and Urban do), then when you start getting to mid-20s on your freshman class size, it is easy for other schools to poach with the whole "you're not going to get early playing time, you are going to ride the bench" spiel. Both Alabama and Ohio State lost a couple of top kids to that pitch this year.
Richt needs to massage the numbers and take whatever transfers and grad transfers we can in order to win NOW, and then adjust future recruiting accordingly.
PS, let's also not forget, you only have a maximum of 5 "count-backs", that is the January enrollees who count back to the prior year.
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Thanks, Cali and DD. So we have roughly 28 counters across 2018/2019 classes to use as of now, and any additional GTs for 2018 reduces that number for the 2019 class. Got it. And we need more attrition if we’re going to use all these and stay under the 85 max. Check. .Good stuff.
....not worried about the 85 cap. We always lose a few guys over the offseason and throughout the fall.
....not worried about the 85 cap. We always lose a few guys over the offseason and throughout the fall.
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No, your summary is NOT how it works. You can take 25 (plus count-backs and mid-year-graduation replacements) each year. Therefore, if we can give out 28 this year, it is counted on an ANNUAL basis, starting in August 2018. Thus, kids who come in NEXT YEAR'S SIGNING CLASS (i.e., summer or fall 2019) will count as of August 2019, and by that point, some (if not all) of the grad transfers for the 2018 season will already be gone.
Here's a good (and recent) article that walks you through some of the issues:
https://www.sbnation.com/college-fo...-recruiting-class-limits-national-signing-day
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i think grover summarized it exactly right. and reading your response, im not actually sure what you disagree with him on?
we have added 25 new initial counters to the team, 3 of which we were able to count back to 2017. That puts our 2018 initial counter total at 22. which means we could add up to 3 more counters before the 2018 season. IF we dont, we have 3 spots for the 2019 class that we can count back to 2018. thats 25 +3 = 28.
so when grover says we have roughly 28 spots for 2018/2019, hes correct. any player we sign and enroll between now and this fall will reduce our 2019 class by 1, as thats one less player we can count back.
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yeah ignore the other dude, this is right.
yeah we shouldn't worry at all about the 85 limit. I can count at least 7 absolute minimum that should not be on scholarship next year for us.
But even though we have 28 available, I wouldn't be surprised if we only used 25, just like this year. It seems we're not trying to sign maximums unless we are getting truly elite guys which imo is good. we dont want to get 28 just because we can. we want to get the right guys, and if that number is 28, its 28...if that number is 25, its 25.
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As long as we sign 25 or more quality commits to the 2019 class and are standing at 82+ after NLOI day in one year from now, we should be primed for years to come. It's not just staying above 80 that matters, it's the quality of depth. We'll be replacing a lot of JAGS (McCray, Milo, J Jones, etc.) and program kids (Rosier, Langham, M Smith, etc.) with what should be another set of predominantly South Florida plus and elite athletes.
We can sign 28 in '19. If we take 2 GT, we are now at 26 initial counters.
We were at 81 of 85. 16 seniors, +4 open spots for '19 before any departures. 16+4=20 of the 26.
If we have more than 6 kids leave, we will be under 85 in '19 yet again. Haven't been close to 85 since '11 or '12.
The only way we play near 85 in '19 is to give walk-ons ships. The real questions: are we better off giving Marshall Few a ship for 2 years or signing someone like Bonnito, Gamble, Samuels...who aren't prototypical bodies for their projected positions?
I said Burning Spots because I'm talking '19-'21. Sure, a GT could help us in '18 but that bed should be made.
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