My silver lining...

BWCD

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I've always been accused of being an optimist, but I try to stay pragmatic at the same time. So...when I say this, I'm well aware there's a host of other factors (NCAA sanctions, recruiting, injuries, etc) that will go into what I'm about to say, and that history doesn't always repeat itself.

Now, we're 11 years removed from our last national title team in 2001. The turning point that a lot of folks point to for the program to get to that point in 2001, was the 1998 season. Now--that season we finished 9-3 and ranked #20 with a bowl win. I don't think this season will be like that at all, I think we finish outside of the top 25 and somewhere in the realm of 7-6 or 8-4 at absolute best.

However, one parallel from that 98 season and this one is what I feel to be a turning point...at least I hope it to be.

In 1998, we lost miserably on the road to Syracuse 66-13. We looked in that game about like we did this past Saturday in Manhattan, 52-13. The next week in 1998, we played #3 UCLA in the Orange Bowl and won 49-45 to keep them out of the national title game. Now--our opponent in Bethune-Cookman following the KSU thrashing is nowhere near as high profile as UCLA was, so there won't be that visible monumental turnaround in one week. That, and the roster does look different from an experience standpoint. Maybe an eventual win (if it happens) against a GT, FSU, or VT this season will be more comparable to the UCLA win in 98. We'll see.

What that Syracuse loss in 98 did was set up some younger guys to start stepping up to make plays--the youth movement was on. Santana Moss and Najeh Davenport were a true sophomore and a true freshman respectively on that team, and were contributors early on. James Jackson was a RS Sophomore on that team. Reggie Wayne was a true sophomore. All of them got burn in that 1998 season, including that ugly loss in the Carrier Dome.

1999, we went 9-4 with a bowl win, finished ranked #15. This was also the season that true Freshman Ken Dorsey took over as starter midway thru for Kenny Kelly, as the youth movement continued.

In 2000...we finished 11-1 with another bowl victory and finished ranked #2 in the country.

In 2001...we finished 12-0 and won the national title over Nebraska.

I'm not saying that we'll win the national title in 2015--not at all. I'm just saying that once you hit rock bottom with a loss like the 98 team had against Syracuse, and that this year's team had last week with KSU, that it can be a turning point. History might not repeat itself, but you can learn what is possible from looking back at what your predecessors went through. If I'm Golden--I'm telling this team AND his coaching staff that they need to keep working just like that 1998 team did, and that they too can be looking at being an elite football team in 2-3 years if they stay focused and use that KSU loss as the spot in time where we turned the corner and started getting better.
 
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interesting analogy, and i hope you're right, but this season appears far closer to 1997 than 1998. We just don't have a guy like Edgerrin that we can rely on to shorten the game and get key first downs. and our current defense is not nearly on the level of that '98 team.
 
What I keep reminding myself is that we probably weren't going to learn much about this team in two weeks.

This is a team of progression for lack of a better word. We need to take steps this year and we flat out need to play better when it comes to the middle of the road ACC teams. We aren't on the VT, FSU, Clemson level just yet but we need to take a hold of that second tier of the conference. As a young team I think that's being realistic. Next year with Morris as a senior these freshmen and sophs need to pull this team up to that next level.

We need to see the U-Tough program pay off as the season wears down. With a team of this many freshmen, the later the season goes the more of a disadvantage we are at so we need to show that we have the ability to grow up and get better quickly.
 
What I keep reminding myself is that we probably weren't going to learn much about this team in two weeks.

This is a team of progression for lack of a better word. We need to take steps this year and we flat out need to play better when it comes to the middle of the road ACC teams. We aren't on the VT, FSU, Clemson level just yet but we need to take a hold of that second tier of the conference. As a young team I think that's being realistic. Next year with Morris as a senior these freshmen and sophs need to pull this team up to that next level.

We need to see the U-Tough program pay off as the season wears down. With a team of this many freshmen, the later the season goes the more of a disadvantage we are at so we need to show that we have the ability to grow up and get better quickly.
Agreed all around. Good post.
 
There is however a big difference in what you laid out. Even back in 98 I (and many others) had the sense that we had some real gems on the roster that would be not just good but great over time. I'm not feeling that same sense of optimism now. I see 3-4 kids as of right now I'd want on my team(Duke,Perryman, Chick and Flowers). I'm not sold on the WR's being anything other than good with an occasional great game or two. I'm not sold on the vaunted DB's (Bush and Howard) as yet. In fact Howard looks totally out of his league against pretty pedestrian competition. BC and Kst are not stacked at WR.

So going back to the good old days, I could see true, bonafide stars in the making. I see a perpetual 9-3/8-4 team here. This roster as it stands will not be an elite program.
 
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The silver lining is that the *** pounding happened very early in the season vs late. We need this week's BCC 'scrimmage' to fine tune the fixes and continue to get the team up to speed. Will be very interdasting to see the team that rolls out 2 weeks from now.
 
The silver lining is that the *** pounding happened very early in the season vs late. We need this week's BCC 'scrimmage' to fine tune the fixes and continue to get the team up to speed. Will be very interdasting to see the team that rolls out 2 weeks from now.

lol - I really do get your point, but it's gonna take a lot more than "fine tuning".
 
there is absolutely no relation between this team and those. none.

we are looking at a complete rebuild. we don't have **** on offense except for a solid OL, which will be turned over by the time we have some real playmakers (except for maybe Duke)

we need gamechangers at WR and I don't see any on the roster.

we need 3 more legit RBs

we need a QB that will win us games and not just manage them (at best)

LB and DB appear to be headed in teh right direction but we still need 2 more recruiting classes to fill out quality depth
 
I've always been accused of being an optimist, but I try to stay pragmatic at the same time. So...when I say this, I'm well aware there's a host of other factors (NCAA sanctions, recruiting, injuries, etc) that will go into what I'm about to say, and that history doesn't always repeat itself.

Now, we're 11 years removed from our last national title team in 2001. The turning point that a lot of folks point to for the program to get to that point in 2001, was the 1998 season. Now--that season we finished 9-3 and ranked #20 with a bowl win. I don't think this season will be like that at all, I think we finish outside of the top 25 and somewhere in the realm of 7-6 or 8-4 at absolute best.

However, one parallel from that 98 season and this one is what I feel to be a turning point...at least I hope it to be.

In 1998, we lost miserably on the road to Syracuse 66-13. We looked in that game about like we did this past Saturday in Manhattan, 52-13. The next week in 1998, we played #3 UCLA in the Orange Bowl and won 49-45 to keep them out of the national title game. Now--our opponent in Bethune-Cookman following the KSU thrashing is nowhere near as high profile as UCLA was, so there won't be that visible monumental turnaround in one week. That, and the roster does look different from an experience standpoint. Maybe an eventual win (if it happens) against a GT, FSU, or VT this season will be more comparable to the UCLA win in 98. We'll see.

What that Syracuse loss in 98 did was set up some younger guys to start stepping up to make plays--the youth movement was on. Santana Moss and Najeh Davenport were a true sophomore and a true freshman respectively on that team, and were contributors early on. James Jackson was a RS Sophomore on that team. Reggie Wayne was a true sophomore. All of them got burn in that 1998 season, including that ugly loss in the Carrier Dome.

1999, we went 9-4 with a bowl win, finished ranked #15. This was also the season that true Freshman Ken Dorsey took over as starter midway thru for Kenny Kelly, as the youth movement continued.

In 2000...we finished 11-1 with another bowl victory and finished ranked #2 in the country.

In 2001...we finished 12-0 and won the national title over Nebraska.

I'm not saying that we'll win the national title in 2015--not at all. I'm just saying that once you hit rock bottom with a loss like the 98 team had against Syracuse, and that this year's team had last week with KSU, that it can be a turning point. History might not repeat itself, but you can learn what is possible from looking back at what your predecessors went through. If I'm Golden--I'm telling this team AND his coaching staff that they need to keep working just like that 1998 team did, and that they too can be looking at being an elite football team in 2-3 years if they stay focused and use that KSU loss as the spot in time where we turned the corner and started getting better.

Very good use of the SPACE bar and ENTER button.

Will read again
 
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Also. Go look when Butch Davis brought in Tommy Moffit.

See if you can find any parallels.

And Butch hired Schiano in 99. Not sure who he fired. Can't remember.
 
i agree that we are years away from competing for a NC. times have changed and we are way behind with respect to talent, symmetry, red-shirting, culture change etc. This is a long term project.

Golden doesn't use the word "re-build". He says we are building. I think the nuanced difference is accurate. There is nothing to re-build. There was no foundation when he got here. So, we need to build anew.
 
I've always been accused of being an optimist, but I try to stay pragmatic at the same time. So...when I say this, I'm well aware there's a host of other factors (NCAA sanctions, recruiting, injuries, etc) that will go into what I'm about to say, and that history doesn't always repeat itself.

Now, we're 11 years removed from our last national title team in 2001. The turning point that a lot of folks point to for the program to get to that point in 2001, was the 1998 season. Now--that season we finished 9-3 and ranked #20 with a bowl win. I don't think this season will be like that at all, I think we finish outside of the top 25 and somewhere in the realm of 7-6 or 8-4 at absolute best.

However, one parallel from that 98 season and this one is what I feel to be a turning point...at least I hope it to be.

In 1998, we lost miserably on the road to Syracuse 66-13. We looked in that game about like we did this past Saturday in Manhattan, 52-13. The next week in 1998, we played #3 UCLA in the Orange Bowl and won 49-45 to keep them out of the national title game. Now--our opponent in Bethune-Cookman following the KSU thrashing is nowhere near as high profile as UCLA was, so there won't be that visible monumental turnaround in one week. That, and the roster does look different from an experience standpoint. Maybe an eventual win (if it happens) against a GT, FSU, or VT this season will be more comparable to the UCLA win in 98. We'll see.

What that Syracuse loss in 98 did was set up some younger guys to start stepping up to make plays--the youth movement was on. Santana Moss and Najeh Davenport were a true sophomore and a true freshman respectively on that team, and were contributors early on. James Jackson was a RS Sophomore on that team. Reggie Wayne was a true sophomore. All of them got burn in that 1998 season, including that ugly loss in the Carrier Dome.

1999, we went 9-4 with a bowl win, finished ranked #15. This was also the season that true Freshman Ken Dorsey took over as starter midway thru for Kenny Kelly, as the youth movement continued.

In 2000...we finished 11-1 with another bowl victory and finished ranked #2 in the country.

In 2001...we finished 12-0 and won the national title over Nebraska.

I'm not saying that we'll win the national title in 2015--not at all. I'm just saying that once you hit rock bottom with a loss like the 98 team had against Syracuse, and that this year's team had last week with KSU, that it can be a turning point. History might not repeat itself, but you can learn what is possible from looking back at what your predecessors went through. If I'm Golden--I'm telling this team AND his coaching staff that they need to keep working just like that 1998 team did, and that they too can be looking at being an elite football team in 2-3 years if they stay focused and use that KSU loss as the spot in time where we turned the corner and started getting better.
I don't know how many freshman in 98 team. I think this season is 7 win at best.
 
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What I keep reminding myself is that we probably weren't going to learn much about this team in two weeks.

This is a team of progression for lack of a better word.
We need to take steps this year and we flat out need to play better when it comes to the middle of the road ACC teams. We aren't on the VT, FSU, Clemson level just yet but we need to take a hold of that second tier of the conference. As a young team I think that's being realistic. Next year with Morris as a senior these freshmen and sophs need to pull this team up to that next level.

We need to see the U-Tough program pay off as the season wears down. With a team of this many freshmen, the later the season goes the more of a disadvantage we are at so we need to show that we have the ability to grow up and get better quickly.

A lot of truth here. In grand scheme, if we close season strong, we can forget KSU beat down.
 
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