forums

losing the trenches

B

Babscanes

Sophomore
Joined
Oct 15, 2018
Messages
514
Guys after yesterdays bad news we have to realize the state of our program. As some have alluded to already what we perceive about Miami isn't what 17 and 18 year old kids think. Miami has been irrelevant for over 15 years or all of these recruits lives. Yes there have been some minor peaks here or there but overall its been a middle of the road program.

The main reason I believe this has happened, outside of the coaching hires is our recruiting on both the OL and DL has been suspect at best. Games are won in the trenches. If you cant dominate there it doesn't matter who is the QB, RB, WR etc. We are missing way to many line recruits and it shows quickly when we play anyone with a heartbeat.

Until Miami starts winning these battles in recruiting they wont win on Saturdays. Our only hope is that the guys we sign can be coached up and overachieve.

Losing out on another top DL recruit to Bama stings but can you really sit there and be surprised?

Honestly look at the program and you know in your heart we are probably somewhere between 20 and 30 on the list of top tier teams. Closer to 30 if you consider the last 15 years.
 

Advertisement
Can't lose to **** teams like Virginia and continuously get embarrassed against the top teams on your schedule (LSU/Clemson). Makes you irrelevant.
 
exactly, these bad losses every year and bringing us down. You just cant have that when trying to get back on top of the mountain. kids are fickle and with the amount of coverage these days nothing goes unnoticed
 
Babscanes said:
Guys after yesterdays bad news we have to realize the state of our program. As some have alluded to already what we perceive about Miami isn't what 17 and 18 year old kids think. Miami has been irrelevant for over 15 years or all of these recruits lives. Yes there have been some minor peaks here or there but overall its been a middle of the road program.

The main reason I believe this has happened, outside of the coaching hires is our recruiting on both the OL and DL has been suspect at best. Games are won in the trenches. If you cant dominate there it doesn't matter who is the QB, RB, WR etc. We are missing way to many line recruits and it shows quickly when we play anyone with a heartbeat.

Until Miami starts winning these battles in recruiting they wont win on Saturdays. Our only hope is that the guys we sign can be coached up and overachieve.

Losing out on another top DL recruit to Bama stings but can you really sit there and be surprised?

Honestly look at the program and you know in your heart we are probably somewhere between 20 and 30 on the list of top tier teams. Closer to 30 if you consider the last 15 years.
Click to expand...



Yet we have the number 1 D in the country and one of the most feared DLines in America.

I see what you're saying about the recruiting though. It just doesn't make sense why these kids wouldn't want to come here and play in this D.
 
Its pretty simple and I have been shouting this for years:

You either pay kids, or you win big. Those are the only two things that lead to sustained recruiting success. PERIOD.

So if you hire a staph of “recruiters” and a CEO HC, then you HAVE TO DROP BAGS and hope your bags are bigger than the other guys.

Otherwise, you need actual football men coacing and scheming and winning games with lesser talent first, which creates a momentum flow.

Miami has done neither since the turn of the century and here we are.
 
Advertisement
I've thought the same at times, but in every draft there are lineman that came out of HS relatively unheralded. It doesnt mean we have to shop in the discount aisle but I also don't think the sky is falling. We have been missing out on the top rated DTs and tackles for 10+ years. Looking back, it's hard to fault anyone for not wanting to play for Golden, but as others have pointed out on the board, these are the most highly sought after positions (even more than QB) and as such, ahem, pay the best.

We will never be able to match what teams in the $EC and little 10 offer in their bags. It doesnt mean we still cant recruit and identify high 3/low 4 star types who can still come in and get the job done. It's only been one year but I would say Simpson has coached up our dline. One could argue Simpson has been our best "commitment" on the dline in some time. I also think that with Manny's style of defense it will always be one that's desirable to defenders.

Still expect us to perennially be in the top 10-15, with maybe a top 5 finish here or there. But we will ALWAYS lose out on a few high 4 and 5 star kids every year that "love" Miami but choose to "feed the fam".
 
Canedog said:
If I won da Mega Millions 1.6 billion I swore an oath I was going to drop bags for this U like you wouldn't believe and bring the program back. This morning I found out I didn't win so I'm still broke and so is the program.
Click to expand...
I would be a rogue booster
 
Richt has not managed recruiting well on defense. Period. End of story. (OL and QB are additional topics.)

There are kids we can sign. There are fall back options. We should not get surprised by local kids at schools we know well. And we should not put all our eggs in the basket of a kid being recruited by Alabama, under any circumstances. We should also not leave ourselves in the position we’re in on OL and DL by underrecruiting over time. College rosters turn over every 3-4 years with attrition. You have to approach every single recruiting cycle like it is a critical, urgent, competitive exercise. Because it is. One bad class, or a couple mediocre unit classes in a row, can drop a program from elite to ordinary very fast.

Our program may be better than it was under the past three coaches, who were incompetent. That does not mean it is actually being well run.
 
Advertisement
Manny and Jess Simpson are doing great things here. Rated pretty high in every defensive category; play an aggressive/attacking style of defense. Turnover chain. I understand 'ships and bags get in the way sometime. Kids will be kids. Is what it is.
 
NateDogg said:
I've thought the same at times, but in every draft there are lineman that came out of HS relatively unheralded. It doesnt mean we have to shop in the discount aisle but I also don't think the sky is falling. We have been missing out on the top rated DTs and tackles for 10+ years. Looking back, it's hard to fault anyone for not wanting to play for Golden, but as others have pointed out on the board, these are the most highly sought after positions (even more than QB) and as such, ahem, pay the best.

We will never be able to match what teams in the $EC and little 10 offer in their bags. It doesnt mean we still cant recruit and identify high 3/low 4 star types who can still come in and get the job done. It's only been one year but I would say Simpson has coached up our dline. One could argue Simpson has been our best "commitment" on the dline in some time. I also think that with Manny's style of defense it will always be one that's desirable to defenders.

Still expect us to perennially be in the top 10-15, with maybe a top 5 finish here or there. But we will ALWAYS lose out on a few high 4 and 5 star kids every year that "love" Miami but choose to "feed the fam".
Click to expand...

But then they have to be coached up and schematically put in a great position.

You cant have guys like Patke and Jr Rick and Dumph and Searles and Hartley and the worst OC in football on your staff if you want to go the “player development and coaching” route.

Either drop bags like Clemson did for years to build it up, while paying coordinators, or hire elite FOOTBALL staffs and not a bunch of recruiters.

Ya’ll should read the NCAA BBall scandal stuff. It gives great insight into the role lower level coaches have in facilitation the money to the parent.
 
I think the reason we continue to lose a lot of South Florida kids is because they are front runners all their lives. How many of these kids have 2-3 high schools under their belt before they graduate? They post on twitter make commitment announcements and transfer announcements, they change optimist teams 2-3 times because one is better than the other. The new rule for transferring schools in FL makes it even worse. That is why you see OOS kids rep harder for Miami than the local kids, they are built different. The 4* dlineman we have coming on an official stayed and plays on a team that has won 1 game all year. Richards stayed at Wellington, Ford stayed at Dillard, and the list goes on. Look at the mentality of these kids and their parents in South Florida and you will find out that front running is all they know.
 
Just as "we back!!!" doesn't apply every time we get a player to stick, every loss doesn't mean we are going to lose every recruit.

If we had beaten Virginia 20-16 and we're ranked 12th does anyone seriously think he would have chosen us instead?
 
Advertisement
Go Canes!! said:
Just as "we back!!!" doesn't apply every time we get a player to stick, every loss doesn't mean we are going to lose every recruit.

If we had beaten Virginia 20-16 and we're ranked 12th does anyone seriously think he would have chosen us instead?
Click to expand...

Another genius who puts UVA in a bubble.

UVA was just another box to tick in the “its easy to recruit against Mark Richt” column. Its a cumulative effect, and without UGA boosters Richt is even more lost than he was trying to shut down Georgia.
 
boxtonenyc said:
But then they have to be coached up and schematically put in a great position.

You cant have guys like Patke and Jr Rick and Dumph and Searles and Hartley and the worst OC in football on your staff if you want to go the “player development and coaching” route.

Either drop bags like Clemson did for years to build it up, while paying coordinators, or hire elite FOOTBALL staffs and not a bunch of recruiters.

Ya’ll should read the NCAA BBall scandal stuff. It gives great insight into the role lower level coaches have in facilitation the money to the parent.
Click to expand...

Its frustrating because while Richt has made some solid hires (Diaz, Hartley as recruiter and TE coach, NOT ST, Simpson, Dugans), our staff still has too much dead weight and this offseason is going to be the ultimate make or break for Richt. Will he or won't he is the underlying question. Does he choose blind loyalty over making the right choices?

Been following the basketball trial a bit. I find it funny that they've chosen not to go after the big time programs that clearly have been playing the same game as Louisville and others. You can literally look at Duke's recruiting over the last 6-7 years and pinpoint when Coach K gave the "go" to Nike and others to give money to the 1 and dones. But of course he will skate.
 
NateDogg said:
Its frustrating because while Richt has made some solid hires (Diaz, Hartley as recruiter and TE coach, NOT ST, Simpson, Dugans), our staff still has too much dead weight and this offseason is going to be the ultimate make or break for Richt. Will he or won't he is the underlying question. Does he choose blind loyalty over making the right choices?

Been following the basketball trial a bit. I find it funny that they've chosen not to go after the big time programs that clearly have been playing the same game as Louisville and others. You can literally look at Duke's recruiting over the last 6-7 years and pinpoint when Coach K gave the "go" to Nike and others to give money to the 1 and dones. But of course he will skate.
Click to expand...

Yup. Duke may end up worse cheaters than UNC with all these new one and dones.

As for us, its not just position coaches. Our HC is like a pussified version of later years of Bowden. What does Richt bring to the table as an actual football man? Schemes? Nope. QB development? Nope. Eye for talent? Nope. He brings zero to the table.

That is all fine and good if you are Clemson or 90s FSU and the ball is rolling, you have elite coordinators, and an endless flow of momentum for recruiting.

But for a dead has been program it is a disaster.
 
Advertisement
Canegetright said:
Manny and Jess Simpson are doing great things here. Rated pretty high in every defensive category; play an aggressive/attacking style of defense. Turnover chain. I understand 'ships and bags get in the way sometime. Kids will be kids. Is what it is.
Click to expand...
We dominated ND last year in front of a nationally televised audience and were 10-0 and still lost guys down the stretch. We have a top 3 defense this year and a virtual lock mysteriously informs our staff days before his announcement that he's going to Alabama. We are 5-2 right now and it probably wouldn't matter if we were 7-0. The f*ckery that is recruiting in the tri-county area is systemic and programs with the means to do whatever it takes to secure a recruit's commitment have been doing it for well over a decade.
 
boxtonenyc said:
Another genius who puts UVA in a bubble.

UVA was just another box to tick in the “its easy to recruit against Mark Richt” column. Its a cumulative effect, and without UGA boosters Richt is even more lost than he was trying to shut down Georgia.
Click to expand...

He brought the highest rated clas we’ve have here in how long LAST SEASON?

When you get a chance, be sure to thank those Georgia boosters for continuing to help CMR after he left.
 
Go Canes!! said:
He brought the highest rated clas we’ve have here in how long LAST SEASON?

When you get a chance, be sure to thank those Georgia boosters for continuing to help CMR after he left.
Click to expand...

He brought in one top 10 class. Golden and Randy did it too. And then guess what? They lost on the field, didnt put kids into the NFL enough, and had no bags to drop and the recruiting sank like a stone. Sound familiar?
 
boxtonenyc said:
He brought in one top 10 class. Golden and Randy did it too. And then guess what? They lost on the field, didnt put kids into the NFL enough, and had no bags to drop and the recruiting sank like a stone. Sound familiar?
Click to expand...

So when they first got here both Shannon and Golden got kids with no bags, then didn’t win or put guys in the show, then had no bags to pay kids which got them fired, which led to Richt who got kids for free, but started losing.

So are we at the no kids in the nfl or no bags part of the CMR story?
 
Advertisement
Back
Top