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How much has our roster improved in 2 years?

FrancisSawyer

FrancisSawyer

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More specifically since spring of 2012, how much has our roster improved? I'm curious about what everyone thinks about this and wanted to get the general consensus of the board.

I remember back during the spring of 2012 there were many threads trying to predict the teams record/performance and whether or not we would improve from the 6-6 record of the previous year. What struck me were all the people who thought that the talent level was indicative of a 4 or 5 win team. As it turns out, I was in denial as to how much of a dumpster fire we were talent wise. We ended up getting much more out of our offense than anyone could have expected and ended up 7-5.

Fast forward to today. How much better is this roster compared to then? How would you objectively qualify the current talent level in terms of a realistic expectation for wins?

The catch is you have to take this staff out of the eqaution.

To sum it up, take a good hard look at our current roster and tell me if you see substantial improvement compared to 2012, then tell me how many games you think we should reasonably expect to win with that talent. Discuss.

(The board is slow and it's a long offseason)
 
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QB-Night and day difference in the positive direction, but the talent is really young and probably not ready yet.
RB-Its also better but nowhere where it need to be.
TE-I guess on potential we are better off here
WR-Being positive I will say its better but I alos thought our 2012 haul was gonna have us sitting pretty in that department and it never materialized.
OL-The talent here is outright better

DL-Gotta break it down into DE and DT, cause our DE situation is very bright but our DT situation is abysmal albeit it is slightly better than 2012
LB-Its better but kinda like DT, its the winner of the tallest midget contest
CB-Absolutely
S-We will see
 
I am not sure our record is going to be better by much, if at all. But I would bet there are more future pros in this years junior and senior class than the juniors and seniors of two years ago.
 
I'm not sure if we're counting the current recruits who haven't enrolled yet, but for sake of argument, I'll include them.

QB=Immense improvement. Olsen, Kaaya, and Rosier are a nice stable over just Morris and Williams.

RB=Slightly better. I think Yearby and Edwards are an improvement to James in at least the talent department. Also, it doesn't look like we're replacing Hagens with an equal so that's concerning.

TE=Massive improvement. Old Walford was underdeveloped, Dye never played, and Cleveland was a glorified blocker with no catching threat at all. New and improved Sandland, Dobard, Herndon, and Njoku are an excellent corps in comparison.

WR=Better, but only by a little. Hurns was ready to perform and Dorsett and Waters were expected to have their moments, but Davon Johnson and Kendall Thompkins were nice enough contributors. Waters is streaky and I'm very curious to see how Dorsett performs without a big arm QB and coming off his injury. Stacy is outstanding as we all know, but he's having to replace Hurns's production. D'Mauri Jones is apparently starting to show some promise and Brady, Berrios, and Langham are all talented enough to contribute barring any injury affects with Berrios. I'm not including Gray because that will just fill me with fantasies I don't want to crush.

OL=Talent and production are pretty much the same. Feliciano, S. McDermott, and Flowers are all returning and I think the loss of Seantrel, B. Linder, and Bunche, who's talent leaves a admittedly large gap to fill, but K. McDermott, Gall, Knighton I think, Darling, N. Linder, and the impact of Odogwu will equalize it.

DE=Large improvement. We drop the Ricardo Williams and Shayon Green's of the world to add Thomas, Harris, Jackson, and Muhammad. Green was at best serviceable and now we have three potential game-changers to replace him and we even have a promising player in Kamalu.

DT=Slightly better, but it still sucks donkey *** like before, just not as hard now. We lose Luther Robinson to add Moten, Wyche, Jenkins, and Heurtelou, but in an honestly perfect scenario, Jenkins should be redshirted, Moten would get spot duty, and Heurtelou/Wyche would get time to develop and not be forced into immediate service. It's better, but it's still in shambles.

LB=Better. 2012-now, we lost Gionni Paul, Eddie Johnson, Tyrone Cornelius, Gabe Terry, and Jimmy Gaines. That's a lot of talent to replace. We've done so with Figueroa, Jermaine Grace, Young, McCray, Mike Smith, and Darrion Owens. I'd say that is a larger talent gain than talent lost.

S=Basically the same. We los Rodgers II and Highsmith to add Carter, Gayot, and Hester. Say what you want about Highsmith, Rodgers II performed his job well enough and was a leader. Gayot might be moved to LB, and Carter has shown only flashes. Hester I guess pushes this to the current roster over 2012.

CB=Much better. We lose McGee and Finnie, who I really liked, to add Lewis III, Elder, Burns, and Mayes. I'd call that an increase in talent to put it mildly.
 
bobbydigius said:
QB-Night and day difference in the positive direction, but the talent is really young and probably not ready yet.
RB-Its also better but nowhere where it need to be.
TE-I guess on potential we are better off here
WR-Being positive I will say its better but I alos thought our 2012 haul was gonna have us sitting pretty in that department and it never materialized.
OL-The talent here is outright better

DL-Gotta break it down into DE and DT, cause our DE situation is very bright but our DT situation is abysmal albeit it is slightly better than 2012
LB-Its better but kinda like DT, its the winner of the tallest midget contest
CB-Absolutely
S-We will see
Click to expand...
I pretty much agree with you but I'm going to differ on a couple of points.

At safety, in terms on talent and experience we go from true freshmen Bush and Jenkins with Kacy Rodgers Highsmith and Telemaque in 12 to Juniors Bush and Jenkins with Soph Carter pushing hard, the recently moved Dallas Crawford with the addition of true freshmen Hester and Gayot. And don't forget Tolson. In my opinion the 2014 group at safety is a huge upgrade from where this position was at in 2012 and 2013. In terms of talent depth and experience its a slam dunk IMO.

At LB, I also feel we have improved in terms of having Miami caliber talent. We go from Denzel, EJ, Gioni Paul, Gabe Terry, Cornelius, Cain, Gaines and freshman Kirby to thus year with Senior Denzel, Figs, Kirby, Grace, McCord, Young, Owens, McCray, and Armbrister. Despite the potential of EJ and Terry, I think the current group is a big upgrade and in much better shape than the DT's. Granted, the LB corps that played last year with Gaines and Cornelius getting so much burn was almost as bad as the DT position. Sometimes a year can make a huge difference.
 
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FrancisSaywer said:
More specifically since spring of 2012, how much has our roster improved? I'm curious about what everyone thinks about this and wanted to get the general consensus of the board.

I remember back during the spring of 2012 there were many threads trying to predict the teams record/performance and whether or not we would improve from the 6-6 record of the previous year. What struck me were all the people who thought that the talent level was indicative of a 4 or 5 win team. As it turns out, I was in denial as to how much of a dumpster fire we were talent wise. We ended up getting much more out of our offense than anyone could have expected and ended up 7-5.

Fast forward to today. How much better is this roster compared to then? How would you objectively qualify the current talent level in terms of a realistic expectation for wins?

The catch is you have to take this staff out of the eqaution.

To sum it up, take a good hard look at our current roster and tell me if you see substantial improvement compared to 2012, then tell me how many games you think we should reasonably expect to win with that talent. Discuss.

(The board is slow and it's a long offseason)
Click to expand...

It has been a huge improvement. People say Golden can't coach and his teams under perform, but as you pointed out, his first year, with the minimal talent, and complete lack of any depth whatsoever, all of the major college football publications and pundits were predicting a 4-5 win season at best. He got 7. Every position has been upgraded, and for the first time in years, we finally have some semblance of quality depth at most (but not yet all) positions.
 
S=Basically the same. We los Rodgers II and Highsmith to add Carter, Gayot, and Hester. Say what you want about Highsmith, Rodgers II performed his job well enough and was a leader. Gayot might be moved to LB, and Carter has shown only flashes. Hester I guess pushes this to the current roster over 2012.
Click to expand...

U crazy! Our safety play in 2012 was the worst from that position in UM history! The combination of Jenkins, a healthy Bush, Carter and Hester are massively better than that 2012 group!
 
We have more explosive players on the team now.

Duke, Coley, Dorsett, Scott, and maybe Yearby on offense.

Mccord, AQM, and Bush on defense. And Crawford, Figatron showed signs as well. Another year in the same program.

Yes better by a lot, just from a mental stand point as well.
 
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Good news is that the talent is better with the incoming class included. Massive improvement on Dline and rest of defense. Offense the improved - Coley alone does that - but it is QB that matters. We have choices now so that is much better.

The bad news is that it is all on the coaching staff now. No more excuses. They were not good enough to win without talent, now they need to prove they can win WITH talent. It was said of Bear Bryant that he could take his players and beat your players, then he could take your players and beat his players. Well, we know Al is no Bear Bryant. Let's hope he at least win with his players because they are much better now-- much.
 
Gatorhater said:
Good news is that the talent is better with the incoming class included. Massive improvement on Dline and rest of defense. Offense the improved - Coley alone does that - but it is QB that matters. We have choices now so that is much better.

The bad news is that it is all on the coaching staff now. No more excuses. They were not good enough to win without talent, now they need to prove they can win WITH talent. It was said of Bear Bryant that he could take his players and beat your players, then he could take your players and beat his players. Well, we know Al is no Bear Bryant. Let's hope he at least win with his players because they are much better now-- much.
Click to expand...

No a modern day coach, also, Bryant got beat by SC with black players and almost got hung for wanting to and eventually bringing in black players! All coaches when with talented players.
 
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Gatorhater said:
Good news is that the talent is better with the incoming class included. Massive improvement on Dline and rest of defense. Offense the improved - Coley alone does that - but it is QB that matters. We have choices now so that is much better.

The bad news is that it is all on the coaching staff now. No more excuses. They were not good enough to win without talent, now they need to prove they can win WITH talent. It was said of Bear Bryant that he could take his players and beat your players, then he could take your players and beat his players. Well, we know Al is no Bear Bryant. Let's hope he at least win with his players because they are much better now-- much.
Click to expand...
Well said and I agree that the talent level has been significantly increased. I have been insanely critical of this staff and Golden in particular since the RAB with good reason. The fact that we are starting to assemble some real Miami caliber talent and depth in many spots gives me hope yet I have 4 major concerns.

I fear that Golden and Donofrio may be too ideologically rigid to fully maximize the talent they are starting to put together on defense. Secondly, the game planning and preparation really need to improve as does the in game decisions. Too much of a tendency to play scared and not to lose which ultimately manifests itself in the players being stiff and tentative on game day.

In addition I would like to see James Coley show us that his play calling and game plans as bland and uninspired as they were, were influenced last year by the limitations and injury to Steven Morris.

Lastly I need to see more player development from one year to the next. I need to see guys like Edwards, Waters, Perrynan, Kirby, Figueroa, Scott, Walford, Sandland and Burns take it to the next level and not stay the same.
 
PUNCICANE said:
S=Basically the same. We los Rodgers II and Highsmith to add Carter, Gayot, and Hester. Say what you want about Highsmith, Rodgers II performed his job well enough and was a leader. Gayot might be moved to LB, and Carter has shown only flashes. Hester I guess pushes this to the current roster over 2012.
Click to expand...

U crazy! Our safety play in 2012 was the worst from that position in UM history! The combination of Jenkins, a healthy Bush, Carter and Hester are massively better than that 2012 group!
Click to expand...


Muthfckn this! Those were the worst safeties in UM history. Bush, Carter and Hester will play big boy football.
 
PUNCICANE said:
S=Basically the same. We los Rodgers II and Highsmith to add Carter, Gayot, and Hester. Say what you want about Highsmith, Rodgers II performed his job well enough and was a leader. Gayot might be moved to LB, and Carter has shown only flashes. Hester I guess pushes this to the current roster over 2012.
Click to expand...

U crazy! Our safety play in 2012 was the worst from that position in UM history! The combination of Jenkins, a healthy Bush, Carter and Hester are massively better than that 2012 group!
Click to expand...

Have we had safety play the past 2 years?
I hadn't noticed.
Highsmith was the smartest traffic cone I've ever seen. Telemaque was great at running all over the place, except the place he was supposed to be, and I'll always use his unnecessary pass interference penalty on 3rd and long, 5 yards before the sticks as an example of non football IQ.with a healthy Bush, Jenkins, Carter and Hester we have the best safeties we've had in pretty much a decade.
 
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PUNCICANE said:
S=Basically the same. We los Rodgers II and Highsmith to add Carter, Gayot, and Hester. Say what you want about Highsmith, Rodgers II performed his job well enough and was a leader. Gayot might be moved to LB, and Carter has shown only flashes. Hester I guess pushes this to the current roster over 2012.
Click to expand...

U crazy! Our safety play in 2012 was the worst from that position in UM history! The combination of Jenkins, a healthy Bush, Carter and Hester are massively better than that 2012 group!
Click to expand...

It didn't exactly improve tremendously in 2013. The loss of Telemaque, who was quality, was offset by Bush, but going into this year, we're expecting Bush to return to his Freshman form, Carter to really show out, Jenkins to be consistent, and a true Freshman like Hester to also be a baller. It can be done, but it's a tall order. Rodgers II was serviceable and Highsmith was admittedly a scrub, but he had his moments like the 2-point conversion against Florida.

I guess I'll revise my statement to there's been noted improvement, but I don't think it's massive like everybody else does. The jury's kind of still out at this point.
 
FrancisSaywer said:
bobbydigius said:
QB-Night and day difference in the positive direction, but the talent is really young and probably not ready yet.
RB-Its also better but nowhere where it need to be.
TE-I guess on potential we are better off here
WR-Being positive I will say its better but I alos thought our 2012 haul was gonna have us sitting pretty in that department and it never materialized.
OL-The talent here is outright better

DL-Gotta break it down into DE and DT, cause our DE situation is very bright but our DT situation is abysmal albeit it is slightly better than 2012
LB-Its better but kinda like DT, its the winner of the tallest midget contest
CB-Absolutely
S-We will see
Click to expand...
I pretty much agree with you but I'm going to differ on a couple of points.

At safety, in terms on talent and experience we go from true freshmen Bush and Jenkins with Kacy Rodgers Highsmith and Telemaque in 12 to Juniors Bush and Jenkins with Soph Carter pushing hard, the recently moved Dallas Crawford with the addition of true freshmen Hester and Gayot. And don't forget Tolson. In my opinion the 2014 group at safety is a huge upgrade from where this position was at in 2012 and 2013. In terms of talent depth and experience its a slam dunk IMO.

At LB, I also feel we have improved in terms of having Miami caliber talent. We go from Denzel, EJ, Gioni Paul, Gabe Terry, Cornelius, Cain, Gaines and freshman Kirby to thus year with Senior Denzel, Figs, Kirby, Grace, McCord, Young, Owens, McCray, and Armbrister. Despite the potential of EJ and Terry, I think the current group is a big upgrade and in much better shape than the DT's. Granted, the LB corps that played last year with Gaines and Cornelius getting so much burn was almost as bad as the DT position. Sometimes a year can make a huge difference.
Click to expand...

At safety we have starters, no doubt about it, but one of them couldnt stay healthy last year. Then becomes the issue of depth, wake me up when one of these kids actually does something. Carter is a top notch athlete, but he didnt really play all that much safety in HS, how do we know he is a stud? Spring practice reports? Ill transition to the LBs and start off talking about Figatron that was gonna make us all forget about losing Thomas, or so said the spring practice reports......
Yes the talent at LB is better on paper, but the guys Im really excited about are only first year players plus Grace. Outside of that and Perryman what has Figatron or Kirby done that makes you all that excited? Are they better than what we had? Yes, but as of now its kinda like the tallest midget. McCord is a stud but kinda a tweener in that he looks to stiff to cover anybody, although he can get to the QB.
 
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