Defense: UF Game and beyond

[LuCane]

The depth chart thread made me spin off this thread. You can see that Golden and crew are building roles within the defense instead of just slotting guys into traditional positions and making them compete. I think that's the sign that we're on to step 2 of implementation of Golden's defense. Before you make this a D'Ono thread, it means that we now have guys big and strong enough to do some of the things that are asked.

Additionally, it brought to mind what the poster Dynasty mentioned he wanted to see more: some 3-3-5. While we don't have to go to it as a base defense or anything like that, you can use it as a template to adjust to based on the offense's personnel. You can slide into a more traditional 4-3 or keep it versatile enough to address some of our glaring holes against speed/spread formations last year.

Here's a look:

Some quick notes

What you see above makes seeing an Olsen Pierre at DE make more sense. It also makes a versatile upfield guy like Luther Robinson far more valuable. The first thing to note is that we need Curtis Porter to run this defense effectively. If he does, recruits like Travonte Valentine should be extremely excited about playing here. These positions pay off in enormous sums in the NFL. Example: A franchise DT is valued at around 8-9M/per season in the NFL.

The above picture doesn't show it, but you can do a lot of different things in coverage behind these fronts. 5 under 3 over the top. 3 under and a Cover 3 behind it with 2 guys blitzing. Etc., etc. The one thing we do need is a FS to show some range. Enter Rayshawn Jenkins. While I think most people talk about Deon Bush because of his athleticism and what looks like a guy flying all over the field, Jenkins could play a crucial role for us in "Center Field."

In short, there are a ton of variations and personnel groupings that could be used out of what is shown above.

UF Game

I mentioned UF specifically because the picture shows what I'd like to see us utilize versus UF: cross blitzing and attacking the interior gaps. I think that's the most effective way to attack Driskell, their run game, and dictate (as much as we can) the environment.

There's much more to be said and I hope others chime in.

 

[ScubaCane]

Lu,

Great post, thanks

 

[Cans4life]

Lu, curious as to why you see Jenkins filling the "Center Fielder" role over Bush. From everything I've seen, Bush is further ahead and more athletic.

 

[LuCane]

Lu, curious as to why you see Jenkins filling the "Center Fielder" role over Bush. From everything I've seen, Bush is further ahead and more athletic.

Bush seems to be at his best when he's freewheeling, roaming and headed somewhere in a straight line. It's really early in his career, but that's what made him pop off the screen last season. When I saw him diagnosing plays in HS, he seemed tentative. I'm not saying he can't or didn't already grow out of that, but you can see the guy is at his very best when he's allowed to impose his aggression and athleticism. For those reasons, I'd like to see him roaming in the Nickel as much as possible, or playing deeper coverages that require responsibility of a specific sliver of the field (Cover 2, Cover 4, etc.). When he gets those down, my hope is Artie Burns steps into his Nickel Roamer spot.

*Disclaimer: Again, I'm not in the film room with any of these dudes. I have no idea how many of them think and can only go by what I've seen. I'm also an amateur and just speculating on this stuff for fun.

I would be super excited to coach this defense in the upcoming years.

 

[Gamineal]

lil thick for us fans...when we can **** down FAU like under 200 yards 4+ sacks 3 TOs...I will feel good about Fl and stopping the run

 

[Scoot Scoot]

Great stuff.

 

[skyman]

Lu, curious as to why you see Jenkins filling the "Center Fielder" role over Bush. From everything I've seen, Bush is further ahead and more athletic.

Not LU, but they seem to keep Bush more in the box and use him on blitzes and the like. I think our safeties are pretty interchangeable but Jenkins seems more like the deep safety guy and played the role last year when he played. they seem to use bush as a striker and it uses his skills when he can cover a slot receiver and/or TE. Jenkins is a pretty athlete in his own right also.

 

[Dynasty]

I like the 3-3-5 as a specific sub-package. Heck, I would even go with a 3-2-6 package in long yardage, down and distance situations. It's about having solid coverage ability and speed on the edge.

From a personnel standpoint, it would look something like this:

DE: Pierre
NT: Porter
DE: Robinson
LB: Kirby
LB: Perryman
CB: Gunter
CB: Crawford
FS: Jenkins
SS: Bush
S/L Rodgers/Carter
S/B Burns

 

[FullyERicht]

The 3-3-5 is great against spread teams, but got exposed when Bama ran it down UFs throats in Tebow's last year.

What I see from Pierre being at the DE spot is two gap 4-3 with an easy transition to 2-gap 3-4. It allows them to use the same lineup with different looks, as opposed to having to substitute and show your hand.

 

[LuCane]

I like the 3-3-5 as a specific sub-package. Heck, I would even go with a 3-2-6 package in long yardage, down and distance situations. It's about having solid coverage ability and speed on the edge.

From a personnel standpoint, it would look something like this:

DE: Pierre
NT: Porter
DE: Robinson
LB: Kirby
LB: Perryman
CB: Gunter
CB: Crawford
FS: Jenkins
SS: Bush
S/L Rodgers/Carter
S/B Burns

If you switch out Rodgers/Carter and sub in Mccord, you have really fun variations of blitz packages and still have some balance. If Mccord is really making any progress in coverage, that will help quite a bit from a disguise standpoint.

 

[skyman]

Quick question, Was reading a great article on defending option in NFL, and I know Fisch and Mcdonald visited alot of places last year to implement our offense (Mahlzan, Holgorsen, etc.) and you could see how that helped us develop a O to get 7 wins last year.

I never hear anything like this For Donofrio. Do we have guys come in or go visit anyone to help with our defense. I have to assume a guy as reasonably young as he is, Donofrio is going around the country trying to put some things together. Hey Susan if you read this, instead of asking coach questions he said dont ask already like 10 times, can you ask where the coaches visited this offseason... kthxbye


Also link to great article:

http://mmqb.si.com/2013/07/26/derek-mason-stanford-read-option/?sct=hp_t11_a2&eref=sihp

 

[dg151]

Agreed with what skyman said about Jenkins/Bush. Bush fits the new SS role that has developed in new football, to go along with Jenkins better range, Bush is better in small areas and in man, but they are interchangeable and both fit in cover 1/2/3/4 roles.

As for 3-3-5, and Pierre at end, I think you're looking into that a bit much. Over the past 2 season at Miami and handful of Temple games I saw from the year before (as well as Golden's years at UVA), they've VERY rarely run 3-3-5, and when they have it's super pass rush/blitz set with Chick/Green at nose. The recruiting they've done has been for 3 man lines, but it's only been front 7 recruiting, we don't have the safeties to fit the general defense (which is just a **** defense in general). All those weaknesses you mentioned can be fixed in more traditional defenses.

As for UF, we better freaking live in the box. So much of D'Onfrio's defense the past 2 seasons has been protecting the back 7 (for good reason, they blew). I think you're gonna see the gloves come off a bit (as they did a bit toward the end of the season). UF has probably the most sophistacated run offense in the country, and I can't see us being able to stop them consistently if we're playing cover 2 for any serious amount of time.

 

[eliteproxy]

The depth chart thread made me spin off this thread. You can see that Golden and crew are building roles within the defense instead of just slotting guys into traditional positions and making them compete. I think that's the sign that we're on to step 2 of implementation of Golden's defense. Before you make this a D'Ono thread, it means that we now have guys big and strong enough to do some of the things that are asked.

Additionally, it brought to mind what the poster Dynasty mentioned he wanted to see more: some 3-3-5. While we don't have to go to it as a base defense or anything like that, you can use it as a template to adjust to based on the offense's personnel. You can slide into a more traditional 4-3 or keep it versatile enough to address some of our glaring holes against speed/spread formations last year.

Here's a look:

Some quick notes

What you see above makes seeing an Olsen Pierre at DE make more sense. It also makes a versatile upfield guy like Luther Robinson far more valuable. The first thing to note is that we need Curtis Porter to run this defense effectively. If he does, recruits like Travonte Valentine should be extremely excited about playing here. These positions pay off in enormous sums in the NFL. Example: A franchise DT is valued at around 8-9M/per season in the NFL.

The above picture doesn't show it, but you can do a lot of different things in coverage behind these fronts. 5 under 3 over the top. 3 under and a Cover 3 behind it with 2 guys blitzing. Etc., etc. The one thing we do need is a FS to show some range. Enter Rayshawn Jenkins. While I think most people talk about Deon Bush because of his athleticism and what looks like a guy flying all over the field, Jenkins could play a crucial role for us in "Center Field."

In short, there are a ton of variations and personnel groupings that could be used out of what is shown above.

UF Game

I mentioned UF specifically because the picture shows what I'd like to see us utilize versus UF: cross blitzing and attacking the interior gaps. I think that's the most effective way to attack Driskell, their run game, and dictate (as much as we can) the environment.

There's much more to be said and I hope others chime in.

this is all great but I am still sticking to my "Perryman punches Driskel where his appendix use to be on the first play" plan

 

[RepTheGables]

Now that is some CanesInsight.

 

[Dynasty]

I like the 3-3-5 as a specific sub-package. Heck, I would even go with a 3-2-6 package in long yardage, down and distance situations. It's about having solid coverage ability and speed on the edge.

From a personnel standpoint, it would look something like this:

DE: Pierre
NT: Porter
DE: Robinson
LB: Kirby
LB: Perryman
CB: Gunter
CB: Crawford
FS: Jenkins
SS: Bush
S/L Rodgers/Carter
S/B Burns

If you switch out Rodgers/Carter and sub in Mccord, you have really fun variations of blitz packages and still have some balance. If Mccord is really making any progress in coverage, that will help quite a bit from a disguise standpoint.

I thought about putting Mccord in there, but I'm not sure he's a viable option in coverage just yet.

 

[Dynasty]

Agreed with what skyman said about Jenkins/Bush. Bush fits the new SS role that has developed in new football, to go along with Jenkins better range, Bush is better in small areas and in man, but they are interchangeable and both fit in cover 1/2/3/4 roles.

As for 3-3-5, and Pierre at end, I think you're looking into that a bit much. Over the past 2 season at Miami and handful of Temple games I saw from the year before (as well as Golden's years at UVA), they've VERY rarely run 3-3-5, and when they have it's super pass rush/blitz set with Chick/Green at nose. The recruiting they've done has been for 3 man lines, but it's only been front 7 recruiting, we don't have the safeties to fit the general defense (which is just a **** defense in general). All those weaknesses you mentioned can be fixed in more traditional defenses.

As for UF, we better freaking live in the box. So much of D'Onfrio's defense the past 2 seasons has been protecting the back 7 (for good reason, they blew). I think you're gonna see the gloves come off a bit (as they did a bit toward the end of the season). UF has probably the most sophistacated run offense in the country, and I can't see us being able to stop them consistently if we're playing cover 2 for any serious amount of time.

The 3-3-5 talk here is basically for conversational purposes. I think it's an adaptable defense when you don't have the traditional horses upfront. I believe UM has traditional safeties to be effective running this type of scheme. The issue is whether it has the hybrid type linebacker/strong safety types.

I agree about loading the box against the gator and stuffing the groundgame. That counter play they run is a meat grinder. We've gotta stop that play and be prepared for playaction off it.

 

[dg151]

Agreed with what skyman said about Jenkins/Bush. Bush fits the new SS role that has developed in new football, to go along with Jenkins better range, Bush is better in small areas and in man, but they are interchangeable and both fit in cover 1/2/3/4 roles.

As for 3-3-5, and Pierre at end, I think you're looking into that a bit much. Over the past 2 season at Miami and handful of Temple games I saw from the year before (as well as Golden's years at UVA), they've VERY rarely run 3-3-5, and when they have it's super pass rush/blitz set with Chick/Green at nose. The recruiting they've done has been for 3 man lines, but it's only been front 7 recruiting, we don't have the safeties to fit the general defense (which is just a **** defense in general). All those weaknesses you mentioned can be fixed in more traditional defenses.

As for UF, we better freaking live in the box. So much of D'Onfrio's defense the past 2 seasons has been protecting the back 7 (for good reason, they blew). I think you're gonna see the gloves come off a bit (as they did a bit toward the end of the season). UF has probably the most sophistacated run offense in the country, and I can't see us being able to stop them consistently if we're playing cover 2 for any serious amount of time.

The 3-3-5 talk here is basically for conversational purposes. I think it's an adaptable defense when you don't have the traditional horses upfront. I believe UM has traditional safeties to be effective running this type of scheme. The issue is whether it has the hybrid type linebacker/strong safety types.

I agree about loading the box against the gator and stuffing the groundgame. That counter play they run is a meat grinder. We've gotta stop that play and be prepared for playaction off it.

Yea the issue would be the rover, though in a year or two Jamal would probably excel there.

I just really hate 3-3-5 alignments (though they really equate to 3-5-3), much prefer 5-3-3 looks, unless you're playing really spread-y teams, and even then I prefer guys closer to the LOS, especially against the no huddle check teams.

I'm hoping D'Onfrio's experience (and really, dominance) against triple option teams can transfer to UF. They read option stuff they run isn't too sophisticated, but you have to play sound assignment football against their normal run game. So many bells and whistles.

And Porter ripping people's heads off would help too.

 

[CanesAreAble]

I was going to read this write-up on my phone, but I want to savor this over lunch with some Chopin playing in the background.

 

[skyman]

I'm hoping D'Onfrio's experience (and really, dominance) against triple option teams can transfer to UF. They read option stuff they run isn't too sophisticated, but you have to play sound assignment football against their normal run game. So many bells and whistles.

I know we pulled out the win but GT put some points up on the board last year, moved the ball pretty well also.

 

[tsimonitis]

Another point to consider in the Jenkins/Bush comparision is that Jenkins is a former QB amd once you learn to think like a QB tend to always see things from that point of view.