Off-Topic Cuba

[puertorricane]

That’s not how it worked. They all could have gotten on the boat. The fathers were forced to stay against their will and work hard labor in the sugar cane fields for Castro for years in return for him saying that “your family can leave the country” on a boat someone else paid for. It wasn’t a payment for services. It was forced labor because they simply wanted to leave Cuba.

Not doubting it happened like you say but a lot of stories are exaggerated, especially with the passing of time.
Since Fidel came to power he and his government has been under attack by the US government and the cuban exile, so you have to expect political prisoners and other measures to protect his revolution.
Cuba is a sovereign nation and no other country should be meddling with their affairs.

 

[RVACane]

Not doubting it happened like you say but a lot of stories are exaggerated, especially with the passing of time.
Since Fidel came to power he and his government has been under attack by the US government and the cuban exile, so you have to expect political prisoners and other measures to protect his revolution.
Cuba is a sovereign nation and no other country should be meddling with their affairs.

How do you feel about Chavez/Maduro in Venezuela and how their citizens have faired under their rule?

Do you support Puerto Rican independence to become a sovereign nation?

Do you think Simon Bolivar would be a Castro and Chavez/Maduro supporter or support the opposition in each country?

 

[SpikeUM]

I can pass this along to people I know in NYC. Answer me this though, was there a large amount of Cubans who stand with their black brethren in regards to police brutality in the US in Miami? Because the majority of the Cubans I know where all posting "back the blue". I only know a handful of Cubans(mainly ones I went to the U with, so I can see them being biased). I am sure you know a lot more about what the majority feel. Because if the majority of them, not only were not helping us, but actively siding with the oppressors. Then it will be difficult to get them to rally around your struggle.

Whole different argument/discussion, and I am sorry, but I strongly disagree with you. You are correct, Cubans generally do back the blue, and I strongly do as well. I much prefer to live in a strongly pro law and order community than say Portland, with their nightly riots, or Chicago, where over 100 people were shot over July 4th weekend alone, almost 100% black on black, no police involved. And to clarify, I do realize there are injustices and know there are bad blue out there, I am simply looking at the whole picture.

And when you write "it will be difficult to get them to rally around your struggle", we are talking about the struggle of the Cuban people in Cuba, not Miami, who are mostly black.

 

[BoxingRobes]

Genuinely curious. Do you have the same "its just a little bit more tax money" when it comes to supporting other Latin Americans? Such as allowing more Mexicans to come to this country? I would be totally fine paying more taxes to invade Cuba/let more Cuban refugees come to this country. However, I would also want to see that tax money going towards other Latinos that want to come to this country. Such as the Central Americans trying to cross the border.

Like everyone, my ideology is fluid and isn't always equal.

In your example...I'd have no problem with it.

 

[SpikeUM]

How do you feel about Chavez/Maduro in Venezuela and how their citizens have faired under their rule?

Do you support Puerto Rican independence to become a sovereign nation?

Do you think Simon Bolivar would be a Castro and Chavez/Maduro supporter or support the opposition in each country?

I humbly suggest that he has bought the pravda/granma line hook, line and sinker, and there is no point in trying to reason with him, just put on ignore, like I did.

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

Whole different argument/discussion, and I am sorry, but I strongly disagree with you. You are correct, Cubans generally do back the blue, and I strongly do as well. I much prefer to live in a strongly pro law and order community than say Portland, with their nightly riots, or Chicago, where over 100 people were shot over July 4th weekend alone, almost 100% black on black, no police involved. And to clarify, I do realize there are injustices and know there are bad blue out there, I am simply looking at the whole picture.

And when you write "it will be difficult to get them to rally around your struggle", we are talking about the struggle of the Cuban people in Cuba, not Miami, who are mostly black.

No reason to apologize. I am happy you answered honestly. I would have been very upset had I put tons of hours/money in supporting Cuba only to have them turn around and back the blue. Thank you for the honest response.

 

[puertorricane]

How do you feel about Chavez/Maduro in Venezuela and how their citizens have faired under their rule?

Do you support Puerto Rican independence to become a sovereign nation?

Do you think Simon Bolivar would be a Castro and Chavez/Maduro supporter or support the opposition in each country?

Why you ask me about Venezuela, it's always venezuela and cuba that get all the attention.

Ask me about other latin countries.

What do you think about Juan Bosch who became the first democratically elected President of Dominican Republic only to be overthrown with the US help six months later.

What about what happened to Salvador Allende in Chile, or the military junta in Argentina.

I can go country by country and list all the coup detat that happened all over latin america. All backed by the US and all democratically elected presidents that were overthrown only to put a real dictatorship where hundreds of thousands were either killed, imprisoned or disappeared.

Only reason for that was cause those democratically elected presidents wanted some social reforms to help the poor.

Fidel came to power cause the US kept supporting Batista who was hundred times worst.
If Fidel lasted so long in power it was cause the US gave him an excuse by always trying to overthrow him.

And yes I support independence for PR. Did you know that since 1898 when the US invaded PR till 1957 if you were caught with a puerto rican flag it was an automatic 5 year prison sentence.
The US even changed our national anthem because it spoke of independence.

Latin America has suffered a lot and when their own people try to change their destiny outside influence stops them.

But then americans complain when latinos are forced to emigrate to the US. Look at the US government policies for the last 60 years and you'll find the culprit to all that illegal emigration to the US.

That's why Cuba is looke upon favorably by most latin countries, they have withstood all attempts from the US for regime change.
And they have done it without a civil war and without killing or disappearing hundred of thousands.

 

[RVACane]

Why you ask me about Venezuela, it's always venezuela and cuba that get all the attention.

Ask me about other latin countries.

What do you think about Juan Bosch who became the first democratically elected President of Dominican Republic only to be overthrown with the US help six months later.

What about what happened to Salvador Allende in Chile, or the military junta in Argentina.

I can go country by country and list all the coup detat that happened all over latin america. All backed by the US and all democratically elected presidents that were overthrown only to put a real dictatorship where hundreds of thousands were either killed, imprisoned or disappeared.

Only reason for that was cause those democratically elected presidents wanted some social reforms to help the poor.

Fidel came to power cause the US kept supporting Batista who was hundred times worst.
If Fidel lasted so long in power it was cause the US gave him an excuse by always trying to overthrow him.

And yes I support independence for PR. Did you know that since 1898 when the US invaded PR till 1957 if you were caught with a puerto rican flag it was an automatic 5 year prison sentence.
The US even changed our national anthem because it spoke of independence.

Latin America has suffered a lot and when their own people try to change their destiny outside influence stops them.

But then americans complain when latinos are forced to emigrate to the US. Look at the US government policies for the last 60 years and you'll find the culprit to all that illegal emigration to the US.

That's why Cuba is looke upon favorably by most latin countries, they have withstood all attempts from the US for regime change.
And they have done it without a civil war and without killing or disappearing hundred of thousands.

I’m fairly familiar with Latin America and the US role in past coups in the height of Cold War Russian fear. I’d never argue that overthrowing democratically elected governments - who held legitimate elections - is what we should have done. That said, the Latin coup culture pre-dates US involvement.

Castro wasn’t democratically elected nor re-elected. He simply replaced a US-backed dictatorship with his own brand of dictatorship. if you don’t think he mass executed and tortured Cubans, you’re willfully ignoring facts.

As for immigration, I’ve had to deal with that issue personally with a Dominican wife and step-kid. I think the US has to resolve the issue of millions of “established” illegals here. That said, the US is not blanket responsible for all illegal immigration because of coups they supported in the 60’s in some countries. The US is not responsible for Castro staying in power so long without free elections.

I don’t have an issue with Puerto Rico being it’s own country, btw, though I don’t think most people there will want to lose the benefits they have as a US territory. Do you support the Boricua Popular Army and similar groups and predecessors like FALN?

 

[JD08]

So the US is responsible for everyone else's problems and to fix the results of our meddling, we need to throw money at the country that people are fleeing because their government oppressed them.

 

[RVACane]

So the US is responsible for everyone else's problems and to fix the results of our meddling, we need to throw money at the country that people are fleeing because their government oppressed them.

Correct and they’re only oppressed because we made their leaders oppress them because we’re the devil. We made the Commie dictators torture and execute their people like we made the fascist ones do it. It’s all our fault.

 

[puertorricane]

So the US is responsible for everyone else's problems and to fix the results of our meddling, we need to throw money at the country that people are fleeing because their government oppressed them.

Who's asking for the US to give money to anyone.
Just stay away from sovereign nations affairs.
Let them elect who they want and what type of government they want.

 

[puertorricane]

Correct and they’re only oppressed because we made their leaders oppress them because we’re the devil. We made the Commie dictators torture and execute their people like we made the fascist ones do it. It’s all our fault.

Ever heard of school of las americas? The US meddling is a big part of it, the local corrupt government and oligarchs are another part.
Latin America was a big casualty of a cold war between two super powers.
Their interests were never taken into consideration it was all about what the US and the soviets wanted.
Present day no cold war but the intrusion continues.

 

[JD08]

Who's asking for the US to give money to anyone.
Just stay away from sovereign nations affairs.
Let them elect who they want and what type of government they want.

But isn't that exactly what happened in Cuba? You're the one against the embargo.

 

[puertorricane]

But isn't that exactly what happened in Cuba? You're the one against the embargo.

The embargo is an outside nation deciding who and when can do business with another sovereign nation.
Is illegal by all international law parameters. Yet it has lasted over 60 years.

 

[SpikeUM]

No reason to apologize. I am happy you answered honestly. I would have been very upset had I put tons of hours/money in supporting Cuba only to have them turn around and back the blue. Thank you for the honest response.

As I mentioned in my post, you are confusing Cubans in Miami with those on the island, who may or may not have the same feelings. And on a more macro basis, we are talking about basic human rights, on an island 90 miles from our shores.

 

[SpikeUM]

Correct and they’re only oppressed because we made their leaders oppress them because we’re the devil. We made the Commie dictators torture and execute their people like we made the fascist ones do it. It’s all our fault.

RVA, thank you. I also understand your concern about off topics, the trolls and idiots are way worse than even the regular boards, and that is saying something.

 

[RVACane]

Ever heard of school of las americas? The US meddling is a big part of it, the local corrupt government and oligarchs are another part.
Latin America was a big casualty of a cold war between two super powers.
Their interests were never taken into consideration it was all about what the US and the soviets wanted.
Present day no cold war but the intrusion continues.

Yes. I am familiar with it. So is @Empirical Cane. Do you support the Movements I asked about in PR?

 

[NDE]

Those sanctions don’t affect the Cuban people one bit. It doesn’t prevent them from fishing, confiscate a farmer’s harvest, or prohibit the conduction of ordinary business. It didn’t destroy the sugar cane and tobacco mills or the shoe and canning factories. Communism and Socialism did. All the embargo does is affect the lining of the Cuban Government’s pockets.

110%

 

[NDE]

View attachment 149811

That is straight bull**** and you know it. All TRUMP did was kiss he **** of Putin by constantly praising him and saying that he believed Putun and not his own Generals, CIA and Intelligence agencies. Putin was his boss and confidant. Now reports are coming out that the Top General in the US, General Miley, and all of the military establishment, believed that Trump was going to pull a Castro/Hitler move an take over the government. Stop with all of the bull **** and lies. It is people like you that have this country so misinformed and disinformed. Who was Putin's *****? Trump. No denying that my friend. I hope that the Cuban people finally are not intimidated and do take over the Castro communist dictatorship. It will not be easy but very doable.

 

[RVACane]

RVA, thank you. I also understand your concern about off topics, the trolls and idiots are way worse than even the regular boards, and that is saying something.

I hate this off-topic board and I’d appreciate it if people left me out of it. I know @Zbrod95 tagged me and that’s normal for a Maude but I legit don’t come on here because of this and I will engage unfortunately. But since I’m on it, I can see what you’re dealing with.