4-3 Under - Secondary and Blitz Packages

ghost2

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I'm back with another installment of "Overweight Musician With No Appreciable Athletic Skills Rambles About Football"! Excited yet?


Basic Coverages

Okay, so, from what I've gathered (and as always, those that know more please correct my errors), coverages from the 3-4/4-3 under are basically similar to those in a standard 4-3. You can run Cover 0 all the way to Cover 4 and beyond, it all depends on your personnel, as I mentioned in my last post.

The two most prevalent coverages in this scheme seem to be Cover 1 and Cover 3. In Cover 1, one safety (often the SS) is responsible for the deep middle while the FS and corners play man. In Cover 3, as you might expect, the corners and safety divide the deep portion of the field into thirds.


Combinations

Where things get interesting is when you combine these basic coverages with the responsibilities of the front 7. The LBs can play shallow zone, man, or blitz as the situation warrants. It is the LBs job also to not only know their own zone responsibilities, but where and when to "pass off" their man to the next zone. This is where we got into HUGE trouble last year with the inexperience of our defense and unfamiliarity of our LBs with this scheme. It's also why the most senior LBs will most likely start the season.

This scheme also allows for some nifty CB and safety blitzes as well (see Carrol, Pete). In a Cover 3 zone-blitz situation for example, the WDE and LB are often responsible for the "hot" receivers while the SAM and MIKE rush the passer. Another option is to keep all LBs in coverage looking for the hot receivers while the FS or CB blitzes the edge. Again, the formation is designed to be able to bring pressure from multiple locations without tipping off where it's coming from.


Personnel

One of the nice things about the 4-3 under is that, from a coverage standpoint, it doesn't ask too much from the CBs and safeties. Most of the heavy lifting (literally) is done in the front 7. The safeties must be able to cover ground quickly, particularly the one responsible for the deep middle. They must also be quick enough to man up in spread formations, and strong enough to blitz the edge. Bush and Jenkins should be just fine in this role, provided Deon is healthy. One of the things we still don't have yet is an Ed Reed-esque centerfielder, though Bush or Carter could develop into that - hopefully sooner than later.

Our CBs last year were bailing out more than Snoopy in a Sopwith Camel. I think you'll see less of that, but zone is still a large part of the CB responsibility in this scheme. IF we see improved LB play in the curls/flat game, I think it will mitigate a lot of the issues we have with Cover 3. Either way, Crawford, Howard, Gunter and Co. should be able to take advantage. I was encouraged by how much man coverage I've been seeing in recent practice videos. I would like to see it on Saturdays as well, because I think that's where our CBs strong suits lie.



As always, I welcome the thoughts and insights of the board.
 
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did you see the highlights from yesterday and where the sacks came from? Where we running a 3/4 or 4/3...??
 
did you see the highlights from yesterday and where the sacks came from? Where we running a 3/4 or 4/3...??

It seems like most of the highlights are purposely shown a second or two after the snap. My guess is the coaches don't want to put out too much information on alignments and formation.
 
Gam, I watched the vid multiple times and unfortunately the highlights show almost nothing pre-snap. That said, at least one of the sacks came off the edge from the 9, one was I think from the 3 or even straight up the middle, but that may have been nothing more than the DL beating his man. I didn't see anything from yesterday that made me go "well that's exotic" in terms of pressure.
 
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Gam, I watched the vid multiple times and unfortunately the highlights show almost nothing pre-snap. That said, at least one of the sacks came off the edge from the 9, one was I think from the 3 or even straight up the middle, but that may have been nothing more than the DL beating his man. I didn't see anything from yesterday that made me go "well that's exotic" in terms of pressure.


Don't expect to see anything 'exotic' in the first game either.
 
Gam, I watched the vid multiple times and unfortunately the highlights show almost nothing pre-snap. That said, at least one of the sacks came off the edge from the 9, one was I think from the 3 or even straight up the middle, but that may have been nothing more than the DL beating his man. I didn't see anything from yesterday that made me go "well that's exotic" in terms of pressure.


Don't expect to see anything 'exotic' in the first game either.

Agree, we would likely save any surprises for Uif.
 
Gam, I watched the vid multiple times and unfortunately the highlights show almost nothing pre-snap. That said, at least one of the sacks came off the edge from the 9, one was I think from the 3 or even straight up the middle, but that may have been nothing more than the DL beating his man. I didn't see anything from yesterday that made me go "well that's exotic" in terms of pressure.


Don't expect to see anything 'exotic' in the first game either.

Agree, we would likely save any surprises for Uif.

I think you are wrong...The offense maybe..but I expect the D to be on fire..
 
Here is a great read about the 4-3 Under employed by Pete Carroll with the Seahawks as engineered by Monte Kiffen & George Siefert

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2011/5/31...roll-4-3-under-defense-part-i-an-introduction

I really found this bit quit interesting & Think Miami is headed in this direction especially with the LEO position

The defense that Pete Carroll now employs uses the basic tenets of the Monte Kiffin 4-3 Under defense and mixes in a variation originally pioneered by the legendary George Seifert in San Francisco. Seifert wanted to create mismatches against the opposing offensive line so he started using his weakside defensive end to rove around and rush the passer from a two-point stance (standing up position). This was the beginning of the "Elephant" position and one that Carroll uses today. We also see this position called the LEO, and in the Hawks' defense can rush standing up or in a three-point stance.

It's the same basic alignment but, the SAM linebacker comes up closer to the line to play hard contain and the weakside LEO is pushed out a bit, maybe a yard off of the weakside tackle. The LEO's main job is to control the C gap while rushing the passer like a wild banshee and the SAM plays contain against the TE, runs in pass coverage with him, or rushes the passer in some situations.

Here is the basic description of each position in the Pete Carroll 4-3 Under. In a continuing series, I'll get into more specifics about it, but I'll start you out with a general description. The LEO can be a little bit smaller than a normal DE and Pete Carroll tends to like a more athletic and versatile body type for his Elephant position; a guy that can speed rush the QB but also react quick enough to control his gap. Must also be able to drop back into coverage occasionally in zone blitz situations.

The strongside defensive tackle can be short and squat but must be able to take on a double team consistently. The weakside defensive tackle, the 3-tech, must be your premiere interior pass rusher and have an explosive first step. His main job is to pressure the QB and stop the run in his weakside B gap. The 5-tech defensive end can be a bigger guy and must be great against the run. This is why you saw Red Bryant move out there in 2010.

The SAM linebacker needs to be athletic and rangy; great against the run but able to run with tight ends and running backs in pass coverage. The WILL linebacker is going to get a lot of tackles and in Pete's system is typically a faster, smaller linebacker with range. The MIKE linebacker needs to be the field general; very instinctual and savvy. He needs to be quick enough to drop back down the middle third of the field in pass coverage in the Tampa-2 coverage. The free safety is a guy that's going to move around a lot and be very instinctual as well. He's going to come up to the line a lot and will get a lot of tackles. The strong safety has to be good against the run but like the free safety, will move around a lot and have to defend against the deep pass a lot. He will need to be fast and have some ball skills.

Finally, the cornerbacks need to be physical and long. They will get involved in run defense a lot so they must be good tacklers. They are protected over the top a lot of the time so typically they're not all-world defenders but need to be pretty fast. You see Pete running with solid, physical and tall corners but in his tenure at USC we didn't see any all-world prospects come into the NFL.
 
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Thanks for posting that AG, it was one of the articles I read. Good stuff!
 
ghost weren't you the guy who dressed up as the Death Star for Halloween one year?
 
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Looking at our roster:

Leo - Gilbert/Cain/Muhammad
3 Tech - Pierre/Robinson/Kamala
1 Tech - Porter/Renfrew/Moore
5 Tech - Chick/Hamilton/Pierre
Will - Perryman/Grace
Mike - Gaines/Kirby
Sam - Figueroa/Armbrister

Not sure where Shayon Green fits in that scheme. McCord seems like he will be a situational pass rusher. Not sure about his ability in pass coverage so Sam will be a transition for him. If he can get over 250 maybe to the Leo position.
 
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Basically, the 'hawks play an eight man front which is why you see a lot of single high in the secondary. Their primary objective is to stuff the running game. I think coach D would like to implement something similar because it appears that his base coverage is cover 3. DBush as the free safety would basically play the position that the late Al Blades played during the Davis' years. Thinking back to the '00 season, UM's defense was very solid against the run, but had some issues against good passing teams.

As it pertains to coverages, I think the next step in terms of disguising could be how alignment and leverages are played. For example, cover four would typically align the corners soft off the outside receivers at about 7-8 yards with inside leverage. I've seen Mich St. play cover four with a hard look. The corners would align 4x2 with inside leverage. It looks like cover two with the exception of leverage.

Also, I've notice that 'bama runs its cover 3 a little different from the traditional cover 3 where the corners stay over the top. The way Satan coaches it is that the free safety must get underneath any deep pass in the middle of the field. Georgia run a combination route with the Z running a deep dig and the playside X running a skinny post. The Z receiver occupied the free safety and the playside corner always stayed over the top. Georgia hit that play a few times for big chunks of yardage. Satan never adjusted.

For UM zone coverages, the effectiveness will be determined by the interior underneath defenders. They are the heart and soul of any coverage, whether its man or zone. I still am not sold on UM's spot drop principles. Perhaps with an additional year of experience we will see better results. I certainly hope so.
 
Looking at our roster:

Leo - Gilbert/Cain/Muhammad
3 Tech - Pierre/Robinson/Kamala
1 Tech - Porter/Renfrew/Moore
5 Tech - Chick/Hamilton/Pierre
Will - Perryman/Grace
Mike - Gaines/Kirby
Sam - Figueroa/Armbrister

Not sure where Shayon Green fits in that scheme. McCord seems like he will be a situational pass rusher. Not sure about his ability in pass coverage so Sam will be a transition for him. If he can get over 250 maybe to the Leo position.

Looks about right IMO. Both Kamalu and Hamilton will likely have the range to fit in at both 5 and 3 techniques. Green is slated in the Leo position. While this might seem questionable because of his athleticism, it is apparent that is where he is playing. I believe it was in yesterday's camp report that there was a highlight of him breaking up a pass while dropped in coverage. McCord is probably a situational Leo right now that they're trying to groom at SAM (we'll see how that goes).
 
Looking at our roster:

Leo - Gilbert/Cain/Muhammad
3 Tech - Pierre/Robinson/Kamala
1 Tech - Porter/Renfrew/Moore
5 Tech - Chick/Hamilton/Pierre
Will - Perryman/Grace
Mike - Gaines/Kirby
Sam - Figueroa/Armbrister

Not sure where Shayon Green fits in that scheme. McCord seems like he will be a situational pass rusher. Not sure about his ability in pass coverage so Sam will be a transition for him. If he can get over 250 maybe to the Leo position.

I think McCord fits perfectly in the Leo spot imo along with the other 3 guys you put up there.... He is very good as a stand up rush end.

Also i think Shayon fits perfectly in the 5 tech.... and I would have Robinson in the 1 tech with Pierre/Hamilton/Kamalu in the 3 Tech.

This is how i would have it based on our roster:

Leo- Gilbert/McCord/Cain/AQM
3 Tech - Pierre/Hamilton/Kamala
1 Tech - Porter/Robinson/Renfrow
5 Tech - Green/Chick/Pierre - (I think Green is better suited for this type of assignment)

Will - Perryman/Cornelius/Grace(i'm not sure he's ahead of TC yet)
Mike -Gaines/Kirby/Blue
Sam- Figs/Armbrister/McCord
 
Looking at our roster:

Leo - Gilbert/Cain/Muhammad
3 Tech - Pierre/Robinson/Kamala
1 Tech - Porter/Renfrew/Moore
5 Tech - Chick/Hamilton/Pierre
Will - Perryman/Grace
Mike - Gaines/Kirby
Sam - Figueroa/Armbrister

Not sure where Shayon Green fits in that scheme. McCord seems like he will be a situational pass rusher. Not sure about his ability in pass coverage so Sam will be a transition for him. If he can get over 250 maybe to the Leo position.

I think McCord fits perfectly in the Leo spot imo along with the other 3 guys you put up there.... He is very good as a stand up rush end.

Also i think Shayon fits perfectly in the 5 tech.... and I would have Robinson in the 1 tech with Pierre/Hamilton/Kamalu in the 3 Tech.

This is how i would have it based on our roster:

Leo- Gilbert/McCord/Cain/AQM
3 Tech - Pierre/Hamilton/Kamala
1 Tech - Porter/Robinson/Renfrow
5 Tech - Green/Chick/Pierre - (I think Green is better suited for this type of assignment)

Will - Perryman/Cornelius/Grace(i'm not sure he's ahead of TC yet)
Mike -Gaines/Kirby/Blue
Sam- Figs/Armbrister/McCord

Personally, I really like LRobinson as a three tech tackle. Pierre is a solid three tech too. Both DT's need to be capable of playing each technique because teams will simply try an isolate them by flipping the strength of the formation. Porter and Pierre provide a solid foundation with Robinson rotating at both positions.
 
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