3rd Down Conversion Defense and Time of Possession

[zone3cane]

that separate's us from Oregon, Bama, and FSU. It's been the biggest weakness on defense all season but it finally caught up w/ us.

a lot of yall rather cry about everything under the sun but lets think clearly for once....

FSU's offense was on the field for 38:33, Miami's offense was on the field for 21:27.....

If James Winston didnt throw 2 interceptions their offense would've been on the field for 50 minutes of a 60 minute game.

Fans on here who simply like to throw blame at James Coley, Stephen Morris, or D'onofrio every week dont fully understand football. D'onofrio called the best gameplan you could create against an offense like FSUs..... Coley called many good plays, Morris executed well in the 1st half and he made mistakes but you cant put it on him to be perfect on the few times his offense was able to have the ball, against a defense like FSUs.

Everyone goes from Stephen Morris is looking good when he threw those 2 TDs, to he sucks when he threw those 2 interceptions all in one game. That's not rational.... Jameis Winston threw 2 interceptions as well but the difference is FSU's defense is going to get off the field on 3rd downs while FSU's offense is going to continue to convert on 3rd downs.

It's not fair to blame Morris or Coley b/c no one should realistically be able to expect an offense to execute perfectly every time they have the ball.... it's ridiculous to put all the pressure on the offense for it to execute perfectly when they only have the ball for about 5 minutes a quarter.

Winston can make a mistake and get right back on the field and go back to work. S. Morris makes a mistake, or the offense doesnt execute in that 1 drive, then that could be the only time they see the field the rest of the quarter.

Those who simply say Morris sucks and that's the problem, if Miami had Jameis Winston he wouldnt be able to beat a team like FSU if he's only going to have the ball for 1/3 of the game. The fact that we are 7-1 is a great thing the season isnt over with, no need to point fingers at anyone..... Miami has talent issues on defense simple as that. Thats the reason we cant get off the field.

Having to start Tyrone Cornelius instead of an Eddie Johnson and having to play AJ Highsmith and KC Rodgers at ALL speaks for itself..... AQM is just a freshman, and we dont have anybody to compete and help out Green and Chick in their roles when those 2 would be 2nd and 3rd string at FSU.

Relax... Jimbo had a head start over Golden and it shows when you compare the talent level of UM and FSUs Senior class. Miami is 1 year away from being on the level of the top 3 teams in the country.

 

[Coach Macho]

Why do you think our 3rd down defense sucks? (against everybody)


I already know why, but I want your opinion.

 

[zone3cane]

Why do you think our 3rd down defense sucks? (against everybody)


I already know why, but I want your opinion.

Our best players are 90% freshman and sophomores and we dont have enough overall talent on defense.

 

[ball915]

Why do you think our 3rd down defense sucks? (against everybody)

I already know why, but I want your opinion.

We are frightened by the home run play. When we do blitz it is beyond obvious.

 

[Coach Macho]

Our 3rd down defense sucks because OUR PASS DROPS SUCK!

Has nothing to do with talent. Guys are starring at the QB while there's receivers standing right next to them.

You said Perryman is a 1st round talent. Now go watch his pass coverage during FSU's first drive of the game. FSU completed passes right next to him. He's standing there looking at the QB while a WR is sitting down in his zone.

I just watched the whole first quarter. It's on youtube. Be my guest. Go watch the 3rd down plays and show me how our failures can be attributed to a lack of talent.

 

[miamicanesfan5x]

Winston can make a mistake and get right back on the field and go back to work. S. Morris makes a mistake, or the offense doesnt execute in that 1 drive, then that could be the only time they see the field the rest of the quarter.

Your logic if flawed here. The reason Winston can get right back on the field is because our offense goes 1 and out or 3 and out. That alone skews TOP. There were an equal number of possessions and an equal number of opportunities to score. Their TOP did not limit our offenses chances to score. The offense could have gone on long, time consuming drives to answer their scores and didn't get it done. 14 points is not going to win this game under any scenario.

But I agree the D has to get off the field on 3rd and long. It was a major problem last year and continues to be one this year, even against supposedly weaker opponents.

 

[I'm Hurt Dawg]

Its never Morris fault according to ZoneCane. I was expecting another miracle clutch drive from Morris like the past 2 weeks.

 

[LuCane]

Our 3rd down defense sucks because OUR PASS DROPS SUCK!

Has nothing to do with talent. Guys are starring at the QB while there's receivers standing right next to them.

You said Perryman is a 1st round talent. Now go watch his pass coverage during FSU's first drive of the game. FSU completed passes right next to him. He's standing there looking at the QB while a WR is sitting down in his zone.

I just watched the whole first quarter. It's on youtube. Be my guest. Go watch the 3rd down plays and show me how our failures can be attributed to a lack of talent.

Yes. Although I don't think it's the underlying reason. I think it's a symptom. Why do we even spot drop? It's part of our base philosophy: we will make less mistakes and await the other team's errors. They must have been flying high when Winston overthrew those two passes into defenders who were just playing an area. Problem is that, against the better teams, there will be a couple breakdowns or even plays where guys are in the "right spot," yet cannot make the play against a more talented opponent. The case in point yesterday being the Highsmith vs Benjamin play.

I think part of this may be trusting guys and basically conceding we're "not good enough yet." I guess my question is whether we'll change philosophy when we get the vaunted "3 classes of stars" we're supposed to wait for. My guess is that tendency is just part of our core.

 

[Notsince1985]

It has nothing to do with talent? If we ran the scheme you wanted, but had Gaines, Green, Highsmith, Cornelius, Armbrister out there we'd have a dominating defense? Get real. I don't love the scheme, but give it a rest with that crap. To say talent doesn't play a big part in this is a joke. If we had the 2001 defense out there this scheme would work like a ******* dream.

 

[terdferguson]

This is nonsense. There are two reasons why we can be losing time of possession. The defense isn't getting off the field or the offense isn't staying on it. Lets go to the stats: we're ranked 50th in the country in defensive 3rd down conversion. We're ranked 67th in offensive 3rd down conversion. So relative to other teams our offense is doing a worse job of staying on the field than our defense is at getting off it. That being said, both are a problem, neither are very good.

Now the game last night, yeah third down defense was a big reason we lost, it was awful. But this notion that we'd be a top team with a better third down defense is ridiculous. Our offense sucks at sustaining drives and that's not just this year but last year too. Morris is horribly inconsistent, has bad pocket presence, is poor at short throws, and struggles to read defenses. I love his nfl arm and some of the throws he makes are ridiculous. But that's not enough. It's more important for him to be a guy that is consistent, can pick up first downs and find open guys. Ken Dorsey had a noodle for an arm but was 1000 times the qb Morris is because of what's between his ears.

 

[zone3cane]

Winston can make a mistake and get right back on the field and go back to work. S. Morris makes a mistake, or the offense doesnt execute in that 1 drive, then that could be the only time they see the field the rest of the quarter.

Your logic if flawed here. The reason Winston can get right back on the field is because our offense goes 1 and out or 3 and out. That alone skews TOP. There were an equal number of possessions and an equal number of opportunities to score. Their TOP did not limit our offenses chances to score. The offense could have gone on long, time consuming drives to answer their scores and didn't get it done. 14 points is not going to win this game under any scenario.

But I agree the D has to get off the field on 3rd and long. It was a major problem last year and continues to be one this year, even against supposedly weaker opponents.

my point is a defense can make up for inconsistent offensive play..... even if a QB makes a mistake, or the TE keeps juggling the ball instead of securing the catch and getting up field, if the defense could get off the field on 3rd downs, the offense would continue to get more opportunities.

Stephen Morris took advantage of his opportunities when he moved the ball and threw 2 TDs on those offensive drives..... 2nd half, an elite defense buckles down a lil harder and the 1st drive the offense doesnt convert for whatever reason and punts. Then Jameis Winston and FSU converts however many 3rd downs is needed to get in the endzone... which means UM's offense isnt getting back on the field.

Now it puts more pressure on an offense to make every possession count.... like i said it's suppose to be mutual give and take. If the defense wasnt so terrible on 3rd down conversions then i could criticize Morris, Coley, and the offense for why they arent converting on these drives b/c they would have more opportunities to do so.

 

[Coach Macho]

It has nothing to do with talent? If we ran the scheme you wanted, but had Gaines, Green, Highsmith, Cornelius, Armbrister out there we'd have a dominating defense? Get real. I don't love the scheme, but give it a rest with that crap. To say talent doesn't play a big part in this is a joke. If we had the 2001 defense out there this scheme would work like a ******* dream.

Another person who doesn't get it.

It's not about the actual scheme itself as much as it is about the principles within the scheme.

 

[zone3cane]

Its never Morris fault according to ZoneCane. I was expecting another miracle clutch drive from Morris like the past 2 weeks.

well as far as fault is concerned.... Miami lost to FSU b/c they are the better team.

2 interceptions wasnt the reason Miami lost to FSU.... FSU threw 2 interceptions and still blew us out. You are clueless if you think this game is entirely 1 person's fault.

 

[zone3cane]

Our 3rd down defense sucks because OUR PASS DROPS SUCK!

Has nothing to do with talent. Guys are starring at the QB while there's receivers standing right next to them.

You said Perryman is a 1st round talent. Now go watch his pass coverage during FSU's first drive of the game. FSU completed passes right next to him. He's standing there looking at the QB while a WR is sitting down in his zone.

I just watched the whole first quarter. It's on youtube. Be my guest. Go watch the 3rd down plays and show me how our failures can be attributed to a lack of talent.

D. Perryman isnt the best in pass coverage but he is the least of the problem on defense..... instead of having Eddie Johnson in the starting line-up, Miami has an undersized and not so talented Tyrone Cornelius.

Besides Deon Bush who hasnt been right all season until this past game, and Rayshawn Jenkins... Miami has to rely on AJ Highsmith and KC Rodgers. FSU has veteran DBs like Lamarcus Joyner ours is AJ Highsmith.

On the d-line Miami's best Dend is Shayon Green..... FSU's is Mario Edwards. Talent is the issue not anything else.

 

[Mico Jones]

I'm sick and tired of people using the Highsmith example for talent.

Deon Bush should have been playing. He has as much talent as anyone in the country.

If he wasn't ready to play this game its on the coaches.

The problem is the scheme. The scheme plays scared and doesn't dictate to the offense.

When have you seen a Hurricanes defense be a reactive defense rather than a proactive one. When has a Canes defense been scared of the big play?

Mark D' nolivadotti has to go.

 

[Coach Macho]

Our 3rd down defense sucks because OUR PASS DROPS SUCK!

Has nothing to do with talent. Guys are starring at the QB while there's receivers standing right next to them.

You said Perryman is a 1st round talent. Now go watch his pass coverage during FSU's first drive of the game. FSU completed passes right next to him. He's standing there looking at the QB while a WR is sitting down in his zone.

I just watched the whole first quarter. It's on youtube. Be my guest. Go watch the 3rd down plays and show me how our failures can be attributed to a lack of talent.

D. Perryman isnt the best in pass coverage but he is the least of the problem on defense..... instead of having Eddie Johnson in the starting line-up, Miami has an undersized and not so talented Tyrone Cornelius.

Besides Deon Bush who hasnt been right all season until this past game, and Rayshawn Jenkins... Miami has to rely on AJ Highsmith and KC Rodgers. FSU has veteran DBs like Lamarcus Joyner ours is AJ Highsmith.

On the d-line Miami's best Dend is Shayon Green..... FSU's is Mario Edwards. Talent is the issue not anything else.

Again...

Go watch the first drive of the game and check out Perryman starring at the QB while WR's are right next to him.

Tell me that's a talent issue.

 

[CANESX6*]

i am with you i am so sick of everbody giving coach d a free pass

 

[CANESX6*]

:stormwarning:This guy gets it :stormwarning:

 

[zone3cane]

When have you seen a Hurricanes defense be a reactive defense rather than a proactive one. When has a Canes defense been scared of the big play?

Mark D' nolivadotti has to go.

The game plan against FSU last night was too aggressive and "proactive" thats why we got burnt..... it shouldve been more conservative.

 

[LuCane]

When have you seen a Hurricanes defense be a reactive defense rather than a proactive one. When has a Canes defense been scared of the big play?

Mark D' nolivadotti has to go.

The game plan against FSU last night was too aggressive and "proactive" thats why we got burnt..... it shouldve been more conservative.

That is not an accurate statement, Zone. Other than the well-timed screen vs our 2nd and 8 blitz, where were we too aggressive to the point of getting "burnt?"